I propose that norway and the us exchange prisoners. Since the Norwegian system has shown itself to be effective at rehabilitating and reintegrating its prisoners, the US should transfer a number of nonviolent offenders to norway. In exchange the US would incarcerate breivik for the duration of his sentence.
8 Likes
Think about this way. Breivikās sentence is 21 years. Thereās a real chance that after 21 years, he will be released, and so the penal regime is oriented towards turning Breivik into someone Norway might feel comfortable releasing. Yes, his sentence can be extended indefinitely, but only in twenty years time.
21 years in ADX Florence will turn him into someone who one cannot feel comfortable about releasing. It is antithetical to the spirit of Norwayās approach to incarceration.
Now, putting aside that vindictive fantasy, Breivik is being held in isolation from the rest of the inmate population. If a free human complains of the cold, he turns up the thermostat. If a number of Norwegian prisoners complain that itās too cold, they might not be able to control the thermostat, but a number of informal requests by several prisoners might persuade the staff that āyes, the consensus is that itās a bit nippyā, and thus, the thermostat might be raised. But Breivik is but one person, isolated.
His complaints are not part of a general consensus. They have to be picked apart by staff, doctors, layers, and judges to decide which complaints are real, and which are frivolous. Breivik is forced to whine because he is not taken as seriously as other prisoners.
2 Likes
You are of course right, in general.
On the other hand, this is a special kind of monster. He killed 70-odd people, mostly idealistic children, and killed almost all of them one at a time as he stalked and shot them (rather than all at once and at a further remove, for example by planting a big bomb). Rehabilitation, or even comfort beyond the avoidance of torture on the grounds that it dehumanizes the perpetrator, shouldnāt really be an issue, in his special case.
2 Likes
I say we call this narcissistic thugās bluff - we win either way.
2 Likes
The problem with human rights is that you have to maintain a solid baseline. A right that Breivik doesnāt have is not much of a right at all.
(But no, I donāt think his demands seem reasonable.)
6 Likes
Free humans have the right to consider for themselves what is reasonable and what is not reasonable. People in prison suffer the humiliation of being told what is reasonable, and what is not reasonable. And it would be lovely, if they were not lied to.
1 Like
Heās threatening to starve himself to death? And this is a problem becauseā¦?
2 Likes
This isnāt an article about the flaws and wrongs of the US prison system. Itās an article about how an unhinged mass murderer is behaving irrationally and seeking attention while in prison.
It doesnāt exist to discuss the problems of incarceration in America and how to fix them. It exists to propagate outrage which is calculated to increase click-through rates and maximize the profits of news media advertizing.
It other words, it exists to make money off of an unspeakable tragedy by callously manipulating the worst behaviors and traits of the average person. Itās a carnival freakshow, charging a ten cent admission for a glimpse into the mind of a grisly butcher.
3 Likes
As long as heās isolated from the rest of the worldā¦ sure, give him his video gameā¦ just keep him the hell away from me.
1 Like
Iām not normally a vindictive person but I say give him what he wantsā¦
Fill his cell with about 200 PS4 and 100 litres of Moisturizer.
His skin will be nice and soft when heās slipping over broken consoles and piles of plasticā¦
1 Like
Iāve had it a lot worse than that even.
1 Like
But this is the real issue, isnāt it? The reason why we are angry about this is because we assume that people are responsible for their actions and should be punished or commended. That is, we believe that there is such a thing as proper retribution as opposed to revenge.
But this common-sense idea is totally at odds with the way the Norwegian criminal justice system seems to work. They view criminals (all criminals) as sick rather than evil.*
I totally disagree, but itās difficult to justify unless you believe that people have something like souls.
*A Different Justice: Why Anders Breivik Only Got 21 Years for Killing 77 People - The Atlantic
2 Likes
No rape jokes.
5 Likes
According to available accounts, ADX Florence(purpose built by the feds as a āSuperMaxā facility, unlike a number of state prisons more and less crudely retrofitted in inadequate facilities), is considered to be a very, very competent execution of the concept. Minimal filth and violence, adequate staffing levels, that sort of thing.
The trouble is that prolonged solitary confinement, especially but not exclusively in a low-stimulus environment like that one, is among the more taxing and psychologically destructive conditions you can subject someone to without overt physical torture.
Compared to getting put in āthe holeā in some random dubiously-overseen facility, which has all the downsides and none of the professionalism, ADX is all clean and classy. Itās just that there isnāt a flavor of solitary that doesnāt make execution look like a humane alternative fairly quickly. And ADX has decades to life to work on you, in most of its cases.
1 Like
I wish Boing Boing didnāt feel it necessary to inform us every time some social hemorrhoid cries for a better flavor of ointment. Scientists may well need to know of such demands if itās in their field of study to examine inflamed assholes. Being in that group of people who have chosen not to investigate such anomalies I really donāt want to hear about them
3 Likes
The one thing that I donāt see being addressed by the posters here on Boing Boing is what exactly is a just punishment. A couple of posters have mentioned that under Norwegian law, Breivik is entitled to a parole hearing every 21 years. My question is: is that just? What is a just punishment for the premeditated murder of 77 people?
When we sentence people in the criminal justice system we do so for three reasons. First to protect society, second to rehabilitate the criminal, and third to punish the criminal for the wrong they have committed against society.
In my view, regardless of whether Breivik is no longer a threat to society, or even if heās been reformed, the atrocity of his actions requires a punishment that at the very least would mean that he never enjoys freedom again. Does this mean that no murderer should ever be released from prison? No. But in this case the enormity of his crime is such that regardless of what he does, justice requires that he never breath the air of freedom again.
Regards,
1 Like
The moment he killed even a single person is the moment he gave up his right to be comfortable, participate in society, or be given anything other than what he needs to survive.
I personally believe there are some people who are beyond help. Thatās why I tacitly support the death sentence. Itās a means for disposing of individuals who have, through killing other people under a well-defined set of circumstances, proven themselves too dangerous to allow even the risk of participation within society.
1 Like
No problem. Feeding tubes.
Reminds me of a news piece from last year about some bad ass Swedish prisoners:
āStaff forgot to lock in internees. On thursday night, the staff on duty forgot to lock in six prisoners in NorrtƤlje, three of them convicted for murder. The prisoners used the opportunities to bake chocolate fudge cake in the shared kitchen and watch TV: āThe cosiest evening we have had in a long timeā, says one of the captives.ā
4 Likes
