Sort of, but it is like holding up men’s magazines as an exemplar of all magazines. “look at how badly women are depicted in magazines, as you can see from these copies of Maxim, Vibe, and this swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated!”
It is also a game that penalizes you for excessive and unnecessary kills, e.g. the “silent” part of assassin. The ideal is to take out just the target (and even, as you pointed out, make it look like an “accident”) with nobody knowing you were even there. A bunch of extra dead stripper bodies certainly does not achieve that goal.
So describing that as
"The player cannot help but treat these female bodies as things to be acted upon, because they were designed, constructed and placed in the environment for that singular purpose.
Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters. It’s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal, connected to the act of controlling and pushing representations of female sexuality."
Seems awfully biased if not flat out wrong.
(Also, as dumb as Hitman Absolution was with the killer nuns and stuff the game was actually amazing. As much as I ignored this game initially, I mean come on, killer bondage nuns, it was probably the best, most interesting game in the series. Despite the nuns.)
You might have a point here if all Sarkeesian ever showed was the most obviously misogynist games out there. Might. I’d still disagree with you, but based on how entrenched you are in the nature/nurture thing, I doubt we’d ever see eye-to-eye.
Except that’s not all the videos are about. The Ms Male video, for example, talking about how the default role in games is almost always male, even in crazy abstract non-violent games like Pac Man.
Or the Damsel in Distress videos which takes aim at (among others) the Mario games for treating women not even as players in the game, but as the ball the protagonist is fighting over.
In your analogy, this is like holding up Better Homes and Gardens and TV Guide and showing you women aren’t treated any better.
True. I am only defending the obviously violent, somewhat prurient, clearly male oriented games as the equivalent of “men’s magazines”. Warts and all.
(Even then I totally support female avatar choice being available, too.)
Plenty of room for other types of games, and there should be lots of choice for everyone. I do not want, and no sane person would want, a world where there were only men’s magazines.
Nope, sorry. I had a vague idea he was a Fox News pundit, which I don’t watch (and also I’m pretty bad with names), so I googled him. I find conspiracy theories to be boring exercises in personal hubris, so that explains it. I suppose I can bring up someone tangentially related to the topic as well and decide you’re full of crap if you don’t know who they are.
Oooh, yes, for the attention. I should have known. I wonder if you know which major, AAA studios she’s been invited to speak at about this topic. Surely she’d have publicized this everywhere if that was her goal, right? I know two off the top of my head, but I am under NDA to one of them so I’m not sure I’m allowed to name names.
One wonders why you took the time to read it at all then. You didn’t have to. Possibly for the attention?
Now that is a valid critique of the video. Specific and avoiding the hyperbole of “no one does that!!”
I don’t know that pandering – “appealing to baser instincts regardless of morality” is one more common definitions - is something we should be in favor of
Hey yay, I have hardly any, and attempts to reverse that dropped my sperm count to zero without any other noticeable effects (beyond the patch that almost ate my arm due to a weird reaction to the gel or adhesive or something). What games should I play? Games for those with estrogen? I hain’t gone none of that (or just traces, AFAIK).
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I haven’t even bothered to google AJ, since I don’t know what he has to do with this. I was thinking he was one of the late-night UFO-Obama loonies. Am I far off the money?
I’m not sure that holds up? Should we value white power bands? Burzum, which was made by a guy who posts racist videos on youtube? Should we value the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Not that I think we should ban these things by any means, but, should we value and support them in the same way we do, say Mark Twain, Octavia Butler, or Alice Walker? Should video games that actively degrade women be free from criticism? Does their popularity give them some sort of innoculation from criticism?
I have a daughter and I’ve been around boys of her age (nephews, class mates, etc). They are all very different, actually - all my nieces and nephew, and all my daughter’s friends at schhool. I’ve known some boys who are “typical” boys… my nephew isn’t really. He’s just not particularly aggressive. That’s why I’m arguing for nature playing a role as much as nurture.
I agree with the article, actually, but feel it’s true for all kids. My daughter attends a montessori school, and so no one sits in desks in rows. They work on the things they want to work on, within the limitations of the classroom. Girls are socialized quite early on to be “little ladies” and not be disruptives, while boys are not. I think that plays a role.
As for liking violence… I don’t think that’s necessarily indicative of anything bad. I also don’t think the connections between cartoons and video games in percipitating violence necessarily holds up. What I do think is that if someone is for whatever reason is predisposed to violence, video games might help, but that’s an individual thing. I also think that if someone is already antagonistic towards women, the video games don’t help.
I’m not asking for a genderless paradise. I’m asking for an equal playing field. I’m asking for my daughter to be valued, not because of her gender, but because she’s a human being. I’d like her to grow up in a world where she doesn’t get talked over by men, where she doesn’t have to be doubly good to get the same recognition, where both parents get decent paid parental leave, where it’s okay for men to show emotion, where rape and domestic violence are actually ALWAYS treated like a crime no matter the gender of the person they happen to, where women and men can wear what they like with no social consequences. In short, I’d like my and your daughter to grow up valued not for their reproductive capabilities and their perceived sexual attractiveness, but because they are human beings with inherent worth, and where they don’t have to make choices about whether they need to be dressy or tomboyish to be taken seriously. They can wear make up and heels or flannel and boots and NO ONE makes judgements about them based on that.
Just throwing up our hands and saying “well, what can we do, men and women are different”… well, frankly, the whole nature-nurture, debate is totally irrelevant. I know what I think about it, but frankly, who cares. That has no impact on things like making sure that families have the support they need to raise children and not go broke/lose their minds or pay equality. None. These are social and political concerns that can be worked out to the betterment of all.
A radio-show conspiracy theorist, apparently. I don’t know what he’s got to do with it either. I assume maybe he’s said something about video games or, more likely, the evils of feminism. I don’t get the appeal of conspiracy theories (unless Fox Mulder is peddling them) because really, if everything is controlled by illuminati lizard aliens with limitless wealth and advanced technology … what exactly is Joe Smith, accountant from Peoria going to do about it?
Well, Sarkeesian is hoping to put all gamers into Obamas concentration camps, alongside the gun-owners.
I’ve always appreciated how Stormfront panders to my demographic without the condescension or derision we* see so often in other media.
*
and by “we” I of course mean non-mud-people.
Excuse you, all male gamers. The women are all going to eat grapes and play deeply intellectual romance sims in a genderless paradise.
But adults do criticize children’s programming on the basis of whether it’s well done, whether it’s good for children, and whether it’s advancing societal goals. “Is it exploiting them harmfully?” and “What is it teaching them?” are important questions often asked about children’s programming, by adults.
While I do agree that going in guns blazing was never meant to be the main playstyle, I would still have to argue that it’s a secondary one. Your arsenal is so large that it begs to be used, and the only penalty of using it is a lower score and a potential difficulty increase in future levels. If this was meant to be a stealth only game, your inventory would include a coin and whatever else you can find from the level. Other games, like Dishonored and Deus Ex: Human Revolution, embrace the stealthy vs killing approach. It’s baked right into gameplay, and the only penalty is a harder difficulty level and a bad ending.
Hitman is rather equal with the amount of silly and gruesome deaths you can inflict on both men and woman, but there is still something to be said about the recurring motif of disposable set-piece npcs in video games. Is it only okay if I make a ragdoll human pyramid if they’re men because I ran out of room in the dumpster/fridge? Why do we place less value on male life and yet the women in these games never seem to get outfits that women would actually choose to wear?
I’m somewhat sad they didn’t let you steal the stripper outfit. I’m sure 47 would have avoided detection for a few seconds.
I would have to say my favorite in the series is actually Blood Money. The levels are more open and memorable despite the age the game shows. I remember finding some pretty creative solutions. If you play it again, I particularly like the levels: A Dance with the Devil, A New Life, and You Better Watch Out.
Throughout virtually all species, the most dangerous group of creatures is mothers, hands (paws/claws) down.
Human females may not generally have the same access to lethal weapons as human males do, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have at least the same capacity for violence…despite all the socialization to keep it hidden. Thanks to that socialization, they usually only have access to lesser ways of attacking others, but attack others they do, just as men do.
Do you have at least two of the same gender? I do, and the differences are quite stark and are noticeable even before the first WEEK is over. Any time someone talks about a “boy” trait, at least one of my girls has that trait as well. As well as lots of “girl” traits too. Because they’re not really boy or girl traits at all.
[quote=“teapot, post:224, topic:55708”]
The problem is this bullshit topic keeps popping up in places that I frequent like BB. [/quote]
Feminism is not a bullshit topic.
Well, at least you admit that you’re straight up driving trollies. Because it’s all about you. You don’t like Sarkeesian and You think this is pointless so You are going to dominate the discussion. You’re peeing on the rug, dude.
I’ve got a playbook for you that can help you to come off as less of a sexist trolley. I’d suggest #3, #4, #5, and especially #7.
This, I totally support.
True, and one difference between content for 18+ (implicit in the kind of highly violent male oriented games I am talking about) is that you assume the person is an adult, capable of making their own choices.
Have you seen that boy around other boys? Allow me to illustrate:
Research on children at play holds a clue. Children tend to play with others of the same sex and learn to play, and talk, differently. Girls tend to use language to maintain and negotiate closeness — who’s in, who’s out? — by telling secrets and reassuring each other that they’re the same, that no one thinks she’s better than the others.
Boys tend to use language to negotiate their status in the group — who’s up, who’s down? — by taking center stage or by talking about who’s best at what. If a boy tells other boys what to do and they listen, he’s the leader. That’s why boys are free to — no, they’re expected to — say things such as “Gimme that!”
I see this illustrated a dozen times a day in interactions with my male and female children.
(Again, while there is variance around the mean, the Camel Has Two Humps.)
While I agree with all that, not sure what it has to do with video games, and specifically the presence of video games that pander (are designed for) primarily one gender. I don’t object to the presence of Barbie Fashion Designer, for example. And I am sure a handful of men play it.
Also
He sure is pretty. When I was at the Gap one day while the Avengers movie was out (with our 3 kids, you basically never leave the house without your kids until they’re geez 8 or more?) a black cashier was talking to another cashier and opined “That Thor is damn fine.” I thought it was great!
Not supported by the data at all though:
Bolstering this hypothesis is the fact that males are the more belligerent sex in virtually all mammalian species that biologists have studied. Even the one marked exception to this trend—the spotted (“laughing”) hyena—may prove the rule. The female hyena, which is more physically aggressive than her male counterpart, has higher testosterone levels than the male does.
Also, if capacity for violence was the product of women’s limited social rights in the 40s and 50s, you would expect women’s violence stats to become closer to men’s through the 00’s and 10’s and they became more equal to men, socially and politically. No such increase has been observed.
Two girls, one boy. There is some statistical deviation, yes, but … well, I’ll refer you to the same article by famed Deborah Tannen.
Gender isn’t destiny, but it’s the source of very deep, fundamental differences in many areas across human beings. And very specfically violence and porn, the two things that I consider most applicable to a lot of big-budget popular games.