Anita Sarkeesian on women's bodies as prizes in video games

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My third grade teacher, she rocked.

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Your English seems fine, but I wonder about the distinction between a critique and a review, which seems to be very commonly lost. She is not reviewing the referenced games, she is critiquing the industry’s use of specific tropes and using the games as examples. Pointing out the existence of titles that don’t use a specific trope is rarely needed.
(ex. If you are writing a critique on the use of music as a foreshadowing technique in film, you don’t discuss all the movies that didn’t use the soundtrack that way.)

Also, showing a trope exists in a game doesn’t directly make that game good or bad. For example, Mass Effect is shown positively in some videos, and negatively in others. That isn’t a contradiction, because the topic of each video is the trope, not the game.

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This would be a good read I think…

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This has been one of my biggest criticisms to-date. She lack rigor, but not in some trivial way. She lacks rigor where rigor would actually be extremely useful, and is very important. She can qualify, but not quantify, the problems, and she has a strong tendency to fail to take into account things that may weaken her point, instead of embracing them, or taking them head-on. I don’t always agree with her interpretations, for example, the video about Christmas songs was a little weak with respect to certain songs she had singled out. But really, the rigor thing stands out, and it makes me wish she had better training in sociological methods.

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Careful. You may summon… him.

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Okay, I am gonna make one serious comment then back the eff out.

I think your critique of anitas techniques are valid. They do lack rigor you would expect to find in peer reviewed literature (and I am Sooo not putting words in your mouth)

I also think Anita is rather skillfully pointing out something most of us have known for a long time. (Tired tropes, exploitation, etc)

Lastly I do not believe the lack of rigor harms her message. Better with even more data? Sure! But even as-is the message is true, timely, and important.

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That looks great. I’ll have to finish reading it later and keep a link around for when needed. Thanks.

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It’s really more than that. I don’t know that I would care about peer-review level research, but she is doing research. She has the time and economic incentive to research these games. It’s really hard to understand why she can make altogether significant pronouncements, and not do a better job of shoring them up when she seems to have the resources. It’s one thing to point out sexism in gaming, but she does make specific and significant statements that cannot be immediately taken for granted. It’s annoying to watch and to suspect that she’s right, but come away with little to base it on. In this criticism, is there an element of “That’s not how I would have done it?” Sure, but that’s every critique made since the beginning of humanity. If I didn’t like what she was doing, it would be easier to watch, but because I find the directions she takes interesting, it’s actually very difficult for me to enjoy her videos.

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I am a metrics person, and a researcher would have to invest serious, serious work to pull out numbers from games that rigorously defended her observations. And honestly with the game industry as young as it is, I don’t even know if it is possible (without comparing to other industries like film, which now makes your sample size ten thousand times larger).

Again, I agree your premise has value.

Okay, really out this time :smile:

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I think the question of whether or not pornography can ever become something that doesn’t treat its participants as cattle is a hard one to answer. For me, I think the answer is no because the majority of the funds earned in pornography goes to the distributors. And unlike non-pornographic films, there’s really nothing like SAG which can protect the actors involved. They do have associations but I never seen any of these associations go to bat for female actors in regards to earnings (ex. women-on-women scenes earn women less than men-on-men scenes). And some can easily argue there’s no amount of wage equality that can justify pornography (Marxist exploitation theory applies here I believe). So, it all comes down to what you’re willing to accept as equatable treatment and presentation.

In contrast, video games offer the authors a chance to facilitate agency through the choice of narrative content and presentation. There’s no encumbrance to a game designer to create inclusive games. It’s more about creativity and breaking out of the tropes described by Anita and company. Some developers are slowly progressing and some are still stuck in a rut (partly because of the movement that shall not be named and partly because developers are white men who don’t know better [I don’t buy into the theory they’re intentionally bigoted or blind to bigotry]). The market trends are pushing against the bigotry more than I could ever imagined, but it’s going to take more than cash from minorities to entice developers (and their publishers) to try new things to be sure.

I am the satire around here, sir!

Pro tip: Beards.

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There’s plenty of room for reasonable disagreement. I think what’s important to me is that you’re making the distinction here between pornography being a problem because it is a badly-regulated and often corrupt business (true enough, and a good reason to stay away), and pornogrpahy being a problem because it is always a commodification of someone’s body. The former can be changed - you could make pornography practices less awful. (I’m reminded of suicidegirls, which isn’t without its problems, but is pretty positive, all things considered). The latter is sort of the definition of the thing, and is inextricable - if it’s always a problem to commodity someone’s body, porn is always a problem, because that’s what porn IS.

I can see the point with the latter, but I’m hesitant about it - I mean, commodifying anything anyone does or is seems to be always problematic in the same dehumanizing way, but that’s just a critique of the concept of paying for labor, not so much specific to women’s bodies, and that is to a large degree the air we breathe - moving from a position where people are paid for what they can do for others is a much more dramatic and systemic change that reaches well beyond gender issues.

Paging Ashly Burch…

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Just dropping by to point out - Anita curates a list on Steam of “Games with dynamic or well designed female characters. As well as emotionally impactful games with an emphasis on themes of cooperation, empathy or social justice.”
http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6954951-Feminist-Frequency/

You know, if you’re into that kind of thing. If you’re more into face shooting that’s… okay too.

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Yeah, this is what I’m kind of struggling with in this video - the appearance of the Penthouse Pets contributes to the objectification of women, but the women in question are kind of like “I’m willing to be your sexual fantasy for a reasonable fee,” and, well, why shouldn’t they be celebrated for that?

It’s a little distinct from Sarkeesian’s other examples of women-as-reward, because it involves actual people who are actually signing up to be objectified for money which…weirdly makes me more okay with it? Because then these women get a say, get a fee, get considered, get heard in a way that Samus never could. Devs can do whatever they want to Samus (as the existence of Zero Suit Samus proves), because she’s not real, but Lexi Belle is someone you’d need to come to an agreement with if you want her in your games, someone whose, I dunno, love of dolphins might go into her decision to be nude for titillation.