Announced: $3k Mac Pro, retina iPad Mini, iPad Air, and OS X free-of-charge

That’s the software they use/include, not what they develop/release.

That’s still “participation” in my view. That said, you’re incorrect, some of those they do develop/release (i.e., their contributions to zeroconf networking). And, that said, I do wish Apple would do more. The Apple TV software, for example would be nice.

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but the techs in Cupertino properly optimise the co-operative performance of each element.

For some reason, Windows fanboys never seem to grasp that concept. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard a mouth-breather tell the world that Apple uses the exact, same “cheap” components as everywhere else, when that’s often not the case and/or the components have been customized to perform in superior ways.

I’m a happy Apple customer happily paying somewhat more

And, often you’re not paying more at all and even saving money depending on the timing of the purchase, the specific machine, purpose of purchase, etc.

Also, once you consider the time and money saved by choosing a Mac over Wintel machines in many cases, they pay for any initial costs beyond a PC in the mid and short term.

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It really isn’t. As an open-source developer, I would say that using but not contributing to open-source is not “participating” in any meaningful sense of the word. It’s better called “taking for free.”

(As you say, they do contribute to some open source projects, however).

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It really isn’t. As an open-source developer, I would say that using but not contributing to open-source is not “participating” in any meaningful sense of the word. It’s better called “taking for free.”

Not necessarily if you look at externalities. Getting promotion by Apple is nothing to sneeze at. I’d shit bricks if my OS project got promoted by them. It’s massive exposure to have an OS project get implemented by Apple and as we all know, software is only as secure and free of bugs as the effective code review is. If Apple gets more eyeballs on some code, that benefits the project immensely.

they do contribute to some open source projects, however

Yes they do. And, they’ve certainly had a massively less combative attitude than Microsoft, that’s for sure. Shit, MS has done more to actively attack and thwart OS than any other entity I can think of, actually.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/49364/article.html

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Yeah, they’re more or less in the same bracket as Oracle: piggybacking on FOSS projects in areas where they lack alternatives, pushing out reference implementations for standards they want people to adopt, fixing the occasional bug and giving back as little as they can get away with. Quite a different attitude from the likes of RedHat or Canonical… which is why I don’t really see them as big movers in the space. If RedHat, Canonical or even Google were to disappear tomorrow, the FOSS world would have big problems; if Apple kicked the bucket, in operational terms it wouldn’t be missed that much.

Quite a different attitude from the likes of RedHat or Canonical

Vastly different business models (and businesses for that matter). Redhat, Canonical and even Google can’t do what Apple does. Not sure why you’d compare them. The best comparison is between Microsoft and Apple. Maybe Google, but once again… different business (overall)… Also, I think Google likes to stick its fingers in everything for more nefarious purposes than you may be aware of. IOW, (while often commendable) Google doesn’t deal in OS out of the goodness in its black heart, that’s for sure.

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The alternative name, Goose, was shot down in flames unfortunately.

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As long as Apple’s ego doesn’t write cheques its OS can’t cash.

I was looking at the relationship with FOSS rather than business model… regardless, their models are closer than you think: Oracle uses software and hardware as commodity to sell profitable support contracts; Apple uses software and support as commodity to sell profitable hardware. They use FOSS as a tactical resource where it makes sense – after all, they’re not particularly concerned about software in itself, so whether it comes from them or from others doesn’t matter that much as long as they can retain overall control to implement their own models.

Companies like Google, RedHat and Canonical wouldn’t exist without FOSS, so for them it’s strategic to keep the sector healthy. I have to stress I’m not expressing a moral judgement (neither of them is a particularly likeable bunch, when you get down to certain details), I’m just looking at their relationship with the sector I most care about.

As for Microsoft… meh. They’re all over the place, they just cannot decide what they want to be (a software vendor? a hardware vendor? an enterprise vendor?). Their relationship with FOSS has always been non-existent, because they’ve always seen commoditizing software as an existential threat, and their massive Not-Invented-Here affliction is a big problem.

their models are closer than you think: Oracle uses software and hardware as commodity to sell profitable support contracts; Apple uses software and support as commodity to sell profitable hardware

Hmmm, you just proved my point. As I said, they are different business models. Selling support is vastly different than selling hardware and software on many, many levels.

Speaking of Oracle…

http://readwrite.com/2013/10/15/oracle-opens-both-barrels-on-open-source-software-in-military-whitepaper#awesm=~ol7CaPdaJXtr37

The point was that both commoditise software to sell something else.

(and yeah, Oracle are… Oracle. I worked for them. Their ecosystem still pays my bills. They’re not the nicest company on the planet, more or less like tax-dodging Apple; it’s not a coincidence that Larry and Steve were best buddies.)

Yeah, @Cowicide you might want to save all the righteous indignation for tech companies that are really evil, like Oracle. Holy balls are these guys 110% straight up evil. I mean, Bill Gates started a foundation to solve malaria with all his monopoly money.

Microsoft’s just a lumbering, mostly well meaning giant at this point. Their worst enemy is by far… themselves. Relevant:

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I use a 2009 13" MBP as my main computer; I upgraded from 4 to 8 GB RAM after a year or two, and then swapped in an SSD a year ago, and had been dismayed that there weren’t really any other performance upgrades I could make.

So I applaud their efforts on the software end to improve performance, which seems to be the bulk of this OS X update. Haven’t tested it heavily yet but as far as I can tell it does seem to have provided a noticeable boost in responsiveness, in some areas anyway.

I do like some of the more visible updates too, though most of it is stuff I don’t use. Tabs and tags in Finder should be really helpful (only tried them briefly so far); I use Numbers for basic spreadsheets and the interface update there is pretty nice. The Maps app is really quite nice, but I use Google Maps so much (integrated with my Android phone) I probably won’t use it much.

It’ll be a while before I can even think about any of that shiny new hardware, so I’m glad I can still enjoy new software at least.

if Apple kicked the bucket, in operational terms it wouldn’t be missed that much

Most studies have shown that smaller projects with less source code tend to shine with OS. On the other hand, larger scale projects with large amounts of code tend to be more secure and have less bugs when a large corporation is managing it along with a large base of users who complain of bugs. Of course, there’s anomalies to all of this (i.e. really popular OS projects are often superior).

But, overall, it’s no mystery why many corporate projects with many lines of code can often trump OS. OS projects sometimes have a poor ratio of lines of code to developers inspecting the code. Meanwhile, a corporation (like Apple) can and often do hire more people to dedicate themselves to inspecting the code and also have a massive base of users who inadvertently or otherwise alert the company to bugs after it’s released (or in beta).

When a company like Apple utilizes OS projects and further vets out bugs and security issues, it’s often a WIN-WIN situation.

righteous indignation

I haven’t discussed anything with you in this thread, so why be so crass towards me coming right out of the gate? How about you check yourself and be more polite? If you want respect, please show respect in the first place.

you might want to save all the righteous indignation for tech companies that are really evil, like Oracle.

You should have read my post literally 2 posts above you here:

Announced: $3k Mac Pro, retina iPad Mini, iPad Air, and OS X free-of-charge?

Start reading right after “Speaking of Oracle…”

Their worst enemy is by far… themselves. Relevant:

Your graphic you showed is incredibly over-simplistic, inaccurate and ridiculous. If you don’t think some of those guns are pointing outwards from Microsoft, etc. then you’re grossly misinformed.

Bill Gates started a foundation to solve malaria with all his monopoly money. … Microsoft’s just a lumbering, mostly well meaning giant

To say that it’s “all” of his monopoly money is false to say the least. And, it would also appear that you are also throwing net gains and losses to society right out the window. You know, externalities?

Wow, so you’re yet another person who fawns over Bill Gates despite the fact he plundered far more from society than he’ll ever give to charity?

His corrupt, monopolistic, unethical business practices with Microsoft hurt and/or destroyed countless small businesses and consumers. Small businesses and individuals that would have given far more to charity than King Gates will ever give. In case you didn’t know, small businesses and individuals give vastly more money to charity than large corporations and Bill Gates do combined.

Luckily for Bill Gates, there are plenty of suckers who can’t critically think their way out of wet paper bags and they end up celebrating this megalomaniacal idiot and forget all the damage he’s done because they only focus on his current charity.

So, of course, new megalomaniacs will follow in his footsteps and take far more than they give to society and be celebrated as “heros” in the future… and the sick megalomanic/twit cycle continues.

More…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticism?

Still don’t get it? Even more…

(Here’s your homework: Calculate an estimate of all the harm to all these businesses above and get back with me)

http://lists.essential.org/1998/info-policy-notes/msg00047.html (It goes way back, buddy)

http://www.aaxnet.com/topics/msinc.html (It keeps going)

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=304701 (download the PDF there)

Observe the countless examples here:

http://thismatter.com/articles/microsoft.htm#tq1

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=241988 (download the PDF there)

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=502822 (download the PDF there)

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1998/0907/6205050a.html (That “liberal” rag… FORBES mag)

History of Anticompetitive behavior and consumer harm:

http://unctad.org/en/Docs/ditcclp20082_en.pdf

http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0072487933/46617/microsoft_case.pdf (a very enlightening read if you STILL don’t get it)

http://www.cptech.org/ms/harm.html

http://www.netaction.org/msoft/world/part1.html

http://www.netaction.org/msoft/world/table.html

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/11/microrise.idg/

http://www.fool.com/cashking/1998/cashkingport981118.htm

http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/6/21/61725/2457

http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/ca_sues_ms.html

Microsoft entered into anticompetitive and exclusionary agreements with OLSs and ISPs

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm#vii

I guess if I beat the hell out of someone’s grandmother, steal her purse, then graciously give her back a couple of bucks, you’ll deem me a hero?

So, perhaps even after reading all that above, you still think Billy Boy is a Robin Hood who stole from the first world to give to the third world, perhaps? If you read through those links I posted above you would have seen this:

The effects of anti-competitive business practices on developing countries and their development prospects:

http://unctad.org/en/Docs/ditcclp20082_en.pdf

malaria

The Gates Foundation investments include companies that worsen poverty in developing countries, pollute heavily and supports pharmaceutical companies that don’t sell into the developing world.

Also, he’s doing it wrong…

By pouring most contributions into the fight against such high-profile killers, Gates is diverting staff from basic care. This form of “brain drain”, pulls away trained staff from children and those suffering from other common killers.

The focus on a few diseases has shortchanged basic needs such as nutrition and transportation. Gates-funded vaccination programs have instructed caregivers to ignore – even discourage patients from discussing – ailments that the vaccinations cannot prevent.

The Gates Foundation harms global health by diverting resources from other important local health care services. The foundation diverts medical professionals from other parts of developing nations’ health care systems; the health care systems’ ability to provide care diminishes (except in the area the foundation funds) and the charities do more harm than good. (This has been backed up by several prominent investigations, look it up yourself)

The Gates Foundation is also undermining public education and exerts too much influence over public education policy without being accountable to voters or tax payers. The reforms include closing neighborhood schools in favor of privately run charter schools, forcing standardized tests which have been proven to harm education (just ask teachers, educational professionals, etc.).

What should you learn from this?

It’s better to have decentralized sources of charity coming from many sources instead of one collective source. Unfortunately, Gates helped to hinder and in many cases completely detroy entities that would have not only given vastly more to charity, but would have also done it in a far more diversified and effective manner.

It’s ironic as hell.

Bill Gate’s monopoly helped usher in an era of rampant malware for decades because of the lack of platform diversity. Educate yourself here at this link. This cost average consumers and businesses worldwide in the trillions (many of whom were able to give less to charity because of this, by the way). Many businesses and consumers were rail-roaded into using his subpar products and services via his unethical, anti-competitive, monopolistic business practices (see the many, many links I’ve already posted if you still doubt this, OK???)

The sick irony: He’s now using those same ill-gotten profits (that hurts the world in the past, present and future with a lack of diversification ) and is giving it to the developing world in an ironically non-diversified manner and hurting them as well (with his know-it-all, megalomaniacal arrogance).

As Bill Gates was with Microsoft, he’s too arrogant to look at the big picture. Then again, if Gates looks at the big picture, he’d see what a piece of crap he is – so can’t have that…

Keep kissing the masters feet. But, some of us who are critical thinkers and don’t wallow in ignorance know the emperor’s got no clothes on.

Sure, I’m glad he’s at least paying a tragically small pittance to all the worldwide damage he’s caused, but please forgive me for not celebrating the megalomaniacal idiot either.

Soooo, I’m guessing he isn’t on your Christmas card list?

I’d send him a thank you card for his efforts against malaria, etc. Whether he’s doing that for public relations and to enhance his legacy… or truly out of the goodness in his heart, I appreciate his effort no matter how flawed. He could have very easily not given back any of his plunder back to society and gone full evil… but he chose not to do that. That, in itself at least, is commendable. I’m well aware no one forced him to give his pittance back to society. But, no… not on my xmas card list. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry, it’s hard to hear you over all the axe-grinding.

http://dashes.com/anil/2008/06/bill-gates-and-the-greatest-tech-hack-ever.html

Bill Gates has pulled off one of the greatest hacks in technology and business history, by turning Microsoft’s success into a force for social responsibility. Imagine imposing a tax on every corporation in the developed world, collecting $100 per white-collar worker per year, and then directing one third of the proceeds to curing AIDS and malaria. That, effectively, is what Bill Gates has done.

Microsoft just isn’t dangerous or evil at the epic scale that Oracle is. It’s not even close.

So yeah, if you wanna be pissed off, go for it. Just be pissed off at the truly evil actors who deserve it.

Sorry, it’s hard to hear you over all the axe-grinding.

Sorry, the rest of your post was tl;dr and I’m sick of your disrespect and badgering. You obviously didn’t bother with my evidence, links and sources and only offer your pompous, snide remarks in return. It’s time for you ignore me and I’ll ignore you. You’re consistently disrespectful towards me and I’ve lost what little respect I have for you. I have no more interest in discussing anything with you, at all. Move along, son. I’m not your little punching bag.

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