Is comparable to the idea that we dismiss Isaac Newton because relativity.
IMO the real value of Marx is the idea of analyzing social functions via observable data (dialectical materialism,) which moves the whole of the humanities on the path towards what EO Wilson refers to as Consilience (the unification of all knowledge under the field of science)
Now of course Marx like Newton is not solely responsible for this development nor was he right about everything, particularly, as you mention, his prescriptive theories. I don’t consider myself a Marxist, but I am highly interested in the idea of a more scientific understanding of Econ which is directly tied to physics and ecology, as opposed to being a philosophy with calculus shat all over it, and to that I owe Marx greatly.
The trouble isn’t so much ‘capitalism’ or ‘socialism’ or any other structure. The problem is people and our (here goes the worst word to use in any discussion…) sin.
Yup! Sin. That is: wrongness of heart.
We want what we want and don’t trust nobody to be on our side.
What? Do I hear someone say there is no sin? Seen any keys lately? Why do we have keys? Because of the OTHER GUY. (not me! I’;m all good and fine… as long as my retirement is in place.)
The trouble with governmental systems of all stripes is that those who want money and power and have little compunction about getting it (whatever it takes) trash everything for everyone. And that goes for ecclesiastical systems as well, like churches of any size. And organizations of any size. (ever work for a turd?)
This is something I’ve been arguing for years. I love AOC, but I still can’t believe I’m actually seeing a sitting member of congress openly talking about this.
I’ve never said they should be ignored or helped, of course we need to fight against bigotry and inequality. But we can’t use racism to fight racism, that just feeds it, it has never worked. We need to fight it in other ways.
But the whole “racism is automatic so no individuals can ever be held accountable for their role in maintaining it” sentiment is not one I can support, or even take seriously.
O_o
You have a good day now; I’m not trying to derail the actual topic any further.
It’s hard not to be a dreamer when the realisation of your dreams would be well within the scope of what’s rationally possible. But then again, so would be eradicating world hunger.
I think AOC reflects the fire and frustration of many folks, especially younger folks. This middle-of-the-roadism has gotten us flat wages for decades and gilded age level of inequality. Gordon Gecko is not an economic theorist, Handmaids Tale is not a blueprint for tomorrow, tax cuts do not pay for themselves.
I get that both sides of the aisle want her to fail, but she’s good, she’s real damn good so far. Keep it up, rally others of like mind. Push hard and then mb compromise a bit to move things forward. Move the Overton Window back to somewhere sane. I love it and I am on the slipnslide to sixty now… I’d say ‘you go girl’ but that sounds sexist and stupid, mb “so far so good ma’am, keep it coming!”
She’s way better at the tweedles than presidenyet trumpdeedumpty. Smart, sharp shock. Bring it ladies.
In the sense that those who most “merit” success in a capitalist society will eventually decide to have a hissyfit against the “meritless” and decamp to Galt’s Gulch with their fellow meritorious beings? That’s weird. If you can find a link to the article I’d appreciate it.
The first bit is held by most humans. That second bit makes you a bit better than the author of Atlas Shrugged and the simpletons who make it the basis of their philosophies. To go for the gold, put the fullstop after “I should help others” and leave it at that.
What’s amazing to me is how (at least every time I see them) they’re losing their minds over something that either A) she didn’t actually say (e.g. the Green New Deal doesn’t mention cattle or beef at all, yet conservatives are certain she’s coming for their burgers), or B) something she said, but which is undeniably, 100% true and accurate. (E.g. they’re flipping out because she recently said Reagan, “pitted white working-class Americans against brown and black working-class Americans to screw over all working-class Americans.” Which is demonstrably true.) Every time she says something true, they also act like she’s an idiot, which is really telling.
Okay, so here’s how I figure it- Capitalism is still alive and well in the Trek universe, it just plays an exceedingly small part in it.
The Federation provides all of its citizens with basic needs. Because theirs is a post-scarcity society, this no longer requires things like taxing individuals to provide for the communal good. That is, instead of having merely moving resources from one party to another, they can just produce them without having to take them from someone else. (Infinite energy generation and nearly infinite planets helps with this) In fact, resources are so abundant that the Federation can actually supply it’s active citizens with not only their needs, but many of their wants- Things like food choices, holodecks, transportation and recreational facilities.
Basically 95% of what we all need and use money for. We still have two sub-economies working in very much the way we’ve become accustomed to.
First, most people do something that benefits others, which they are paid for. Besides Starfleet, we see people running restaurants and shops and hotels and mining and transport operations. They make money and spend it just like we do, except that they don’t have to worry about things like food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. They probably make a lot less than we would consider a livable wage, but since they don’t need it to live… It pretty much gets spent on total luxuries or personal obsessions- Not stuff you encounter every day.
The other big component is the reputation economy- Where people have more value than things. Being a multibillionaire with your own starbase just isn’t as appealing to the average person as having people on 10,000 worlds reading your novel, or having the new starship class named after you. The big ego drive isn’t to collect the most wealth or have the greatest stuff, but to be widely recognized as the best at something.
In theory, I completely agree with 95% of what Ayn Rand said. In reality, I understand that capitalism is going to reward someone like Donald Trump Jr or the Kardashians far more than it ever will someone like Van Gogh or Einstein or Salk- Let alone someone who would be the next Salk, but won’t be because they can’t afford college.
Alternatively, that it ended shows that reasonable restraints on capitalism that keep it from tending towards self-destruction will inevitably be removed in the name of more profits.
If nothing else the Republican party, post-1964, and in particular the modern Republican party in the Trump era, has blatantly shown this really isn’t true. I mean, sure, we live in a racist society, so everyone has been brainwashed into accepting a racist worldview to one degree or another, so anyone using racism believes in it to some degree. But the Republican party has been clearly using racism to advance the oligarch agenda for a while now, and quite successfully. Currently there are a number of Republican donors/power figures who eagerly support candidates with racist positions they privately (or publicly) make clear they don’t personally agree with, because it advances their political/social agendas; and politicians who suddenly adopt racist platforms (that they previously showed no indicator they believed in) because they see them as advantageous to their careers/the issues they care about. That is, there are plenty of people happy to use racism as a weapon/tool - and thus perpetuate and expand its power - even as it has a life of its own outside that. (In fact, it works so well as a tool because of that.)
It’s like fire and arson. That fires already exist doesn’t stop an arsonist from making use of fire for their own ends. In fact, that those other fires already exist makes for good cover. “The racism is unfortunate, but it has nothing to do with me or what I’ve said!” (As they continue with overtly racist discourse and policies.)
