“First Nations” is the specifically Canadian term that seems to be generally accepted, at least in more formal usage. Some indigenous people are okay with the term “Indian”, used informally, others definitely aren’t.
2 Likes
I can’t remember the noun “Aborigine” being used to refer to anyone but indigenous Australians, but the adjective “aboriginal” is is commonly used as a synonym for “indigenous” in Canada.
1 Like
Yeah. It’s the Great White North in more ways than one.
http://www.amazon.com/Revisiting-Reframing-Whiteness-Privilege-Education/dp/9462098670
1 Like
Aboriginal.
I stand corrected, uncorrected and corrected again… I guess. 
Indigenous sounds better and I will endeavour to use that in the future. 
1 Like
Oh noes!
1 Like
I’m not sure I’d rather be in Toronto. It seems like there are enough black folk in Toronto and enough places like Jane & Finch that at least some of them can be stereotyped in a way that they aren’t in other parts of Canada (though nothing like in lots of places in the US). In other places with fewer blacks the negative stereotypes you see in US media are really pretty abstract and you associate them with Compton (which might as well be Lagos) or something and not with the small population of black people who live in your city.
In the prairies I don’t think it’s a huge exaggeration to say that most people associate natives with alcoholics and bums (lots of this is tied up with Canadian policy on natives, and the practice of setting up remote reservations and the loss of benefits for leaving reserves, making regular contact between natives and non-natives unusual and punishing natives who leave reserves), and it would also wouldn’t be unusual to hear “Jew” as pejorative shorthand for cheap or unscrupulous.
In general, the flavour of racism in Canada is much different than it is in the US, and it’s much, much easier for immigrants to rise above menial jobs, which is very different than the US, where you see a huge correlation between occupations and ethnicity or race.
Forced speech generally doesn’t go over to well in places that believe in free speech.
Who even drinks at a kids’ hockey game?
Ah, I see, Eagle Sales is an Anheuser-Busch beer distributor based in Rapid City, conveniently close to the reservations. What makes this hate crime even worse is that they undoubtedly rake in profits by fueling the alcoholism that is unfortunately endemic on the rez.
3 Likes
As usual, Mr. C.K. has something to say about this:
6 Likes
And then there’s Mexico, where the predominant population is not white, but the more indigenous you look, the more discrimination you can expect.
From what I know, this is also true in South America.
2 Likes
And boy do they grief the Guatemalans…
1 Like
Some Canadian aboriginals are first nations and others are not. “First nations” is more specific than most people think it is.
Toronto isn’t exactly a post-racial paradise (although, as I noted, based on stats for who teens date it seems like it is heading in the right direction as the next generation gets older). Rob Ford’s antics highlighted some pretty significant discrimination against Somalis that doesn’t generalize to all black people. Black people are definitely discriminated against in Toronto, but it’s not “black vs. white” here.
Toronto also hasn’t escaped ghettoization, it’s just that the ghettos are a lot smaller than they are in other places. Concentration of people from a particular background seems to happen in just a few blocks, so there is a lot more mixing of people with different backgrounds and ethnicities. Jane and Finch is a good example - people think of it as a “black” neighborhood (partly, I think, just because people figure anywhere with gang problems must be a black neighborhood) but the actual population of the neighborhood is much more mixed. It isn’t like black ghettos in the US where a white person would get “What are you doing here?” looks on the street.
I agree that Canada has a different kind of racism than the US (as noted above, you kind of swap the racism against indigenous and black people when you cross the border). But I think the fact that it’s much easier for immigrants (and non-immigrants with dark skin) to rise above menial jobs is not just a different flavour, that’s actually a less racist society.
India has a big lighter skin == higher status thing going on too. Of course then there’s Eastern Europe where light-skinned people are crazy racist against other light-skinned people who are probably their third cousins.
3 Likes
Or Israel/Middle East where everyone is crazy racist against people who are their twins.
3 Likes
6 Likes
I’ve lived in Peru and my two youngest sons are Peruvian and look more indigenous than the general population. In Peru they did experience grief because of their appearance. It took a long time for them to gain comfort in their heritage. Curiously it was living in the States around people who appreciated them for being good kids and now fine young men that helped them gain that comfort.
3 Likes
[quote=“miasm, post:13, topic:50995”]
Canada seems to be forever slipping further into the shadows from my pov. [/quote]
I don’t know about slipping. Probably more “same as it ever was”, with more awareness.
IMHO it’s still a great country to live in, especially if your kin managed to emigrate a century or so ago. Just not so much for the indigenous folk.
“Our [youth hockey] team has heard it all,” says Bear, whose husband, Dale, has coached the midget team for seven years. “Even opposing coaches and refs call our kids ‘dirty little Indians.’”
MacLean’s recent report on racism in Winnipeg
Here’s to “sunlight is the best disinfectant.”
5 Likes
Hence ‘my pov’. 
Concerning Canada, I have little doubt the positives still outweigh the negatives compared to the UK. However, I’m willing to give Scotland another decade before I call it quits. Seems like independence by proxy is still a possibility.
The sunlight of the Internet is the panacea, for sure, but I wonder how advanced the cancer is over here. Strangely, we suffer from a diminutive form of the same disease. A dissociation from and hatred of ourselves. It doesn’t approach the same kind of insanity as actual racism but It’s troubling in the same way. Hidden from view and cannot be brought into the light, engendering denial and repression. 
Edit:
Although, damn! After reading that article, I may have changed my position.
1 Like
The depths of human douchebaggery is endless. Ive been nearly backout drunk more than a few times and I never managed to come close to this level of scum. pats self on back
Perhaps this is not the point you are making but synonyms for ‘compelled’ include ‘enforced’.
As in enforce the law, compelled to make a speech act in which one apologises.
But I strongly suspect you are a bad faith actor and have very little to contribute when behaving as contrarian as you seem compelled to.
I don’t quite see how forcing someone to apologize (i.e., compelling them to speak a specific message) is practically synonymous with “enforced.”
Unless, you know, my compulsion to be contrarian is actually me enforcing some normative standard, in which case I’m not sure how you can characterize it as bad faith.
Compelled speech is generally seen as worse than prohibited speech, and compelled religion is seen as worse than prohibited religion. It’s forcing you to adopt (or pretend to adopt) a viewpoint you do not have. And since most people here are pretty rah-rah on free speech and censorship, they should be dismayed by the concept of compulsory speech.
Personally, I think that limits on free speech can be good, if implemented in a fair and objective way (though this is pretty difficult). I’m not sure I can think of a context where compulsory speech is a good thing.
As in enforcing a punishment, which is what I meant by forced. I suppose a person may always deny any ruling which includes a stipulation that they publicly apologise, which a racist may refuse to do, given that it would be forcing them to say something they did not wish to, accepting further jail time or fines in lieu. But then, I’m guessing most would not wish to go to jail, pay a fine or be committed to restitutive acts either.
I was careful to frame my criticism of your… method as being in bad faith specifically during times when you are being contrarian. I have noticed you make some fairly astute contributions to the conversation when you aren’t nitpicking comments or explicitly trying to find ways in which to spin a statement or intention into something you can then criticise.
It seems like your propensity for spin and misinterpretation is fuelled by the very fact that you do have something to say, to contribute. Constructing a (I think I have this right) projected strawman to burn down. You’ve just rubbed me up the wrong way (obviously) when bending over backwards to find some way of mischaracterising a statement (or usually the intention behind a statement) in order to launch into a critical arc.
Hence the (intermittent) ‘bad faith’.
