could be up to €19B including interest:
not really, that’s a pretty recent phenomenon. the EU invested a lot of money into Ireland from the 70s on, but we were a net contributor to the EU budget from the late 90s / early 2000s (until the crash, which we’ve now basically gotten over).
The only way to resolve this kind of thing long term is for the US to greatly lower their corporate tax rates, and then eliminate all the loopholes and bureaucratic guff that allow these large companies get away with not paying properly. This will have two main benefits: 1) very large corporations will pay more tax in the US, and won’t be able to get out of it by structuring most of their business overseas, their overseas operations will still be able to operate at favourably low tax rates (depending on the countries they base themselves in), which will continue to benefit those countries; 2) smaller companies in the US (who can’t afford the tax services Apple can) will pay a lot less tax, allowing them to employ more people and generally spur economic development.
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C-c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker!
Am I the only one who loves the irony that Apple has a rep of being this creative touchy feely company, and it seems to attract people who are on that end of the political spectrum, but they are just as big of corporate bastards as all the other “evil” corporations.
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I’m all for perspective, but 35 years doesn’t feel that “recent” to me. In fact, it’s an approach that predates Irish accession to the EU. The EU asking Ireland to raise its taxes has been a leit-motif pretty much since Ireland joined.
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Ireland has had a low corporate tax rate for a long time, that doesn’t make us a tax haven, that makes us smart, more countries should take note. The current practice of large multinationals using multiple countries to avoid paying tax in their home country is a far more recent phenomenon. The low tax rate is only one of the reasons we do so well from foreign direct investment though, we also have little bureaucracy, a highly educated workforce, and we speak english.
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And they will dump you like a sack of potatoes the moment they find a place they can pay even less tax.
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could be 1B total once they get done with all the appeals in 5 years.
nope, as I said:
The low tax rate is only one of the reasons we do so well from foreign direct investment though, we also have little bureaucracy, a highly educated workforce, and we speak english.
once a company has invested a lot into a country it’ll take more than a couple % difference in the tax rates (and ours show no signs of going up btw) to make them jump ship.
the competition is good though, keeps us on our toes, what’s really at threat is future investment from companies not already here.
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yeah, to be honest I don’t see the EU winning this one long term. this is all part of a long running battle within the EU from the french and germans vs everyone else on tax harmonisation.
Well, that’s like, your opinion, man. I can tell you most EU countries buying “Irish” goods have different opinions, which is why they’re on your case.
Come on, it’s been going on since forever. Before the EU, it was Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caymans… Ireland added the option of being an actual operational base as well as a commercial tax haven, something small countries couldn’t match.
I agree, but that’s not what 80% of companies said in 1982. Let’s be honest: you bootstrapped an advanced economy with tax breaks. Fine. Now it’s time to play fair.
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So, let me get this straight, Apple “moves” to Ireland to ensure paying lower taxes, then they go and “move” to some overseas head office that does not exist to pay even LESS taxes, but Ireland, like a Stockholm Syndrome patient, is defending the right of Apple to use them as a stepping stone in the scheme of ensuring they pay no significant taxes whatsoever because… well, because we already live in the cyberpunk future and goverments are just beggars for big corps?
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Come on, it’s been going on since forever. Before the EU, it was Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caymans.
we were talking about Ireland, not the rest of the world.
I agree, but that’s not what 80% of companies said in 1982. Let’s be honest: you bootstrapped an advanced economy with tax breaks. Fine. Now it’s time to play fair.
No, I don’t accept that at all. We bootstrapped an advanced economy with significant investment from the EU into national infrastructure, social services, and education, and yes, attractive tax incentives for foreign businesses. We had more than paid back the EU for their initial investments by the time the crash hit, and we’ve now paid back their bailout debt as well. We don’t owe anyone anything.
?
I didn’t realise kidnapping usually worked by the kidnappers giving you money.
I think you owe the rest of us and yourselves something.
Not being accomplices in the game of tax evasion they are playing.
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It’s up to the US to sort out its own tax problems, it’s an ongoing process, the european court is jumping the gun here. This will be sorted out with agreement between the US and the EU, the US has already been critical of this decision.
I’m sceptical that they’ll sort it out in the correct way though, as I suggested above with lowering but actually enforcing their corporate tax regime. It’s certainly not something I’d expect from a Clinton presidency.
So you don’t accept it “at all”, but you accept a bit of it. Right…
Good, then you can raise your tax to levels befitting a developed European country, and drop your sweetheart deals with companies coming to Ireland only to sell stuff to non-Irish EU markets.
Let’s be honest here, Ireland is one of the winners of EU policies. The country benefited from the common market more than most. If you don’t owe anything to anyone, you’re free to leave it.
In other words, “beatings will continue until morale improves”, because trickle-down policies worked so well, right?
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No, I don’t accept any of it, a low corporate tax rate does not equal ‘tax haven’.
Good, then you can raise your tax to levels befitting a developed European country, and drop your sweetheart deals with companies coming to Ireland only to sell stuff to non-Irish EU markets.
We can set our tax levels to whatever we damn well please. The bigger european countries like France and Germany can lower their corporate tax rates to match all the smaller european countries if they like, or not, they can do what they like too. France in particular is in drastic need of reform, and will likely get it when the current government is turfed out at the next election, what form that will take will depend on whether Sarkozy or Jupeé is the next president.
Let’s be honest here, Ireland is one of the winners of EU policies. The country benefited from the common market more than most. If you don’t owe anything to anyone, you’re free to leave it.
I agree, we’ve benefitted greatly, and we’ve paid back what we’ve owed, twice now. We’re also free to not leave it and to not agree to do anything we haven’t signed up for. If the EU wants to impose tax harmonisation policies it has to do so by democratic means (i.e. the european parliament has to come to agreement, the council has to agree, a new treaty would have to be drawn up and the citizens have to vote on it via referenda), it cannot attempt to force it through the back door. The EU is not a totalitarian state, despite what brexiteers would have you believe, it has to abide by it’s own rules.
In other words, “beatings will continue until morale improves”, because trickle-down policies worked so well, right?
Nonsense, and you’ve cut the important bit out of my quote, so let me put it back in again:
The only way to resolve this kind of thing long term is for the US to greatly lower their corporate tax rates, and then eliminate all the loopholes and bureaucratic guff that allow these large companies get away with not paying properly.
I want large US companies to pay more corporation tax, this can be achieved while lowering the overall rate.
Whut? How would lowering the already ridiculously low US corporate tax rate result in US corporate taxes increasing? (without having phrases like Laffer Curve in the explanation)
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The US corporate tax rate isn’t ridiculously low, it’s 35% (in the highest bracket), one of the highest in the developed world!
What’s low is the effective rate they pay because the US tax code is such a fucking mess, if they cleaned it up, lowered it significantly and enforced it properly they could take in a lot more money without hurting smaller companies, in fact benefitting them (i.e. Laffer Curve, don’t tell me what to do). The only people such a policy change would hurt is tax attorneys, and I don’t see many people losing sleep over that.
