As America's middle class collapses, no one is buying stuff anymore

If we consider that there is a spectrum between:

Randian laissez-faire, with no taxes, no sanctions for fraud, no safety net whatever, and;

Leninist total state control of everything, down to how many paper clips are produced every year and how many are placed on what shelf in every state-run store (those being the only stores allowed to be open).

then just about 98+ percent of us are somewhere in between. Denmark is in between, as are Japan, France, Chile, Australia, Turkey, and the United States. So are Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and Elizabeth Warren.

“Socialism” as you choose to define it may also be somewhere in between. But…Denmark, Germany, France, Sweden, and the Netherlands are countries in which privately owned capitalist concerns provide the majority of goods and services, and taxes on those companies and their workers fund the social service network.

I do contend that anyone (not you necessarily) who defines socialism as something that is in opposition to, or a replacement for, capitalism is closer to the Leninist end of the scale than to Denmark.

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I’m sorry, I must have been on a different planet. I was not on the planet where the health care “reform” law was written by the GOP.

Interesting, because the ACA, as passed is nearly verbatim the proposal the Heritage Foundation turned out in the early 90’s to counter the Clinton’s push for single payer.

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But that’s only because doctors and nurses go into that profession because they care about people. If they cared about money, as they properly should, then maybe they wouldn’t be so happy.

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Wasn’t that this planet, when Mitt Romney proposed essentially the same scheme?
(ETA: what @IronEdithKidd said)

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Are you sure? Doesn’t Mitt Romney get his own planet?

On the subject of the ACA, sounds like the good people of Kentucky are in for some fun with their new Governor.

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I’m amenable to the idea of shooting him into the atmosphere of a gas giant, say. Does that count?

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I was worried this may eventually happen the moment I learned about the increasing disparity between the rich and poor ten years ago.

Working for a silicon valley company is not always such a great deal esp when you find out how long the hours can be and how much the rent is.

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I think I can see what the problem is here.

I do not fit on that scale at all because of my opposition to both the state and capitalism. Where does ‘workers self management’ fit on that scale, or anarcho-syndicalism? Is a workers co-op socialism or not? My aim is for a more equal distribution of power which I understand as meaning I have to fight against coercive systems such as capitalism, theocracies or statism. I view Ayn Rand as being as bad as Lenin but there is no way that I am in the middle of your spectrum.

What I want generally isn’t on offer at an election (at the last UK general election I voted for a far left party who believe in the abolition of all government, although I strongly disagree with their views on what to do about fascism), but welfare and taxation is the least worst option in my eyes.

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And then there is recognising cultural difference and understanding that people have organised themselves in many different ways for Millenia.

Even in the so called Western world things a far more nuanced than you think. It’s maybe not the greatest example of a profit making business at this very point of time but e.g. VW, is 20.1% owned by the State of Lower-Saxony, i.e. the it’s owned in part by the people http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/volkswagen-eigentumsverhaeltnisse-in-wolfsburg-fotostrecke-25817.html. There are others.

One of the great strength of the German economy, at this moment in time, is its apprenticeship system, which is quasi socialist: all companies + state contribute into a pot to train the next generation of employees, that is socialism.

Similarly, in Germany there is a thing called Solidaritätsprinzip which basically means that you have to make certain payments even though you might never personally benefit from them. e.g. health insurance for children is covered from Solidaritäts payment i.e. a pot paid into by everyone who is working, even those with no children and you can’t opt out, your freedom is curtailed.

Or a very practical example. My daughter is studying in Berlin. She pays €289.87 / per term (that’s it, all of it), this entitles her to free travel across Berlin for six months. The payment is based on the Solidaritätsprinzip and means that even if she has a car or lives in her university class room, and will never ever use any form of public transport she can’t opt out. Her freedom / individualism is curtailed, along with 84 000 other students she has to pay for something which she might not need, no choice.

On the other hand her friends back here in London are paying £146 /per months = £876 for six months travel. They can all choose to not pay, but actually in reality they don’t really have a choice if they want to get to College.

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This system will probably not survive. The OECD criticises the low amount of college/university graduations in every education report, and our politicians learnt - the Bologna process and the political wish to extend university trainings will sooner or later diminish the dual education system.

Abolishing it would be a tragically stupid thing to do. The only beneficiaries would be the stock market as companies would save hugely in the short run.

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The latest OECD report is droll: They claim Germany has a high downward mobility for education, because apprenticeship is rated as inferior.

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Aw, c’mon! Reagan’s massive and permanent tax cuts for the rich should be trickling down to the middle class Any Day Now!

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It’s only not working because we stopped it during the Clinton years to balance the deficit and then had to start all over again. But any day now, any day!

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Oh, we’re buying stuff. But it’s cheap-ass fall-apart crap, disposable electronics and processed food, that’s what.

The OP-cited article is essentially correct about the broad economics, but not on the attribution of those economic forces. It’s for different reasons than solely 1% ownership of the means. The 1% has managed a magnificent extraction of money and quality-of-life from the 99% for many decades and, more importantly, on many fronts. The pressure the article talks about was conceived by the 1% and executed by the 1%, and all of that started happening in earnest in the 1950’s, not simply after 1999 when people stopped getting meaningful raises.

In the 80’s, common furniture was solid wood, often manufactured in the USA, marketed and sold locally by small furniture sellers. Sure, it was expensive, but not more expensive than it is today, proportional to income. Now, furniture at the same retail cost is cheap veneer on fiber core, almost universally, even so-called “nice” furniture. Or, if it’s Ikea and claimed to be solid wood, it is composite wood from many small pieces glued together. Real solid hardwood furniture from large planks is a specialty item that will set you back thousands. Even the middle-to-upper end of solid wood furniture is dowel-joined or nailed instead of mortise and tenon or dovetailed like not very long ago. And it is all almost universally produced in faraway lands from destroyed rainforests. It’s the same price as ever, and made of cheaper and cheaper raw materials.

If Hershey’s could produce chocolate syrup from seawater and shit, they would. The HFCS and other crap going into the product is a direct result of massive piles of nitrates leftover from the ramp-up in nitrate production for WWII. We (USA) were hedging our bets and did not fully know if the bomb would work, or if it could bring an end to the war. So we were preparing for the long haul by ramping up oil production to stockpile nitrates in order to produce bullets and shells for a long, protracted war. These materials were left over, as well as the means to produce them, and were repurposed to fertilizing corn. Production of it only increased after the war. Companies producing processed foods and soda like Coke had much cheaper ingredients and devised many new markets for their corn-syrup based fabrications. That process of cheapifying our food and drink continues like a Moore’s law for food: cheaper and cheaper ingredients means bigger and bigger profits, and bigger and bigger marketing schemes to foist them on people, as well as bigger conspiracies to hide the dark truths about them. That’s another 1950’s thing that has only increased geometrically over the decades.

Cars are now cheaper than ever to produce and still cost more and more each year, and fall apart faster. What proportion of car ads is it on TV? More or fewer than drug ads? Hard to say.

Direct marketing of drugs to patients pre-prescribing to their doctors the drugs they want to take drives the many trillion dollar drug industry and health care industry. 1 trillion for drugs, 2+ trillion for health care buying that trillion of drugs.

Health care would be getting more efficient, due to advances in treatment and sensitivity of diagnostic testing, but instead has become an exercise in more of it and more expensive, due to collusion between government, hospitals, insurers and pharma.

College tuition has increased at a rate far outpacing inflation since the 1980’s. Nuff said.

As we’ve discussed in other threads, interest rates for student loans have increasingly strangled newcomers to the workforce. Laws restricting bankruptcy and loan forbearance add to that burden and fatten the 1%'s pockets.

I would go on and on. But the deck has been stacked for a very long time. But it’s not a simple grab-and-run like the article implies. It is systematic, insidious, and long-standing. It will be extremely hard to stop.

We’re buying stuff. Cheap shit that will be in the dumpster next month, because that’s all they give us. We don’t have a choice because we weren’t given one.

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Nate:

“Soros” is well known as a dog-whistle word and although not technically verboten on BB, is nonetheless strongly discouraged.

“Koch” is available in all contexts, and is suggested as an alternative.

Are you not getting the memos? Ask to be put on the list.

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Yes, that’s what most people are doing. And if you live in a city, you probably don’t have any other choice. But some of us have rejected that lifestyle.

I get my computers from dumpsters!

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Specious parallelism is specious.

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