Think of a buried-treasure* movie. Everybody’s all cool, the treasure is buried, no rush. But if anybody is caught sneaking out of town without the whole group - snkkkkt!
* or whatever the trope is called.
1 Like
1 Like
Meanwhile…there’s the quarry. Whatever we might think of his characterization of the people, I think Banks does a good job of describing places (the house, and now the quarry).
Question: it’s apparently no longer operational, so why do they have to give up their property to the quarry company?
2 Likes
Quite the quarry query.
3 Likes
Isn’t it only less operational?
(no, actually, I like this point)
I’m writing this all out of order so apologies in advance if I start getting a bit disjointed. I realized about 22 posts through the thread that I should try to talk about what I felt of the chapter before getting all discussy. Didn’t really get a chance to do that on the last thread because I got all discussy.
I’ll admit this is possibly a case of reading too much into something but Kit asks two different people if the tape is a sex tape. The first one is Hol and the second one is Haze. Nearly at opposite ends of the chapter. Assuming it’s not an accident on Banks’s part, it could be indicative of Kit believing Hol might want to protect him from the knowledge that it’s a sex tape … were it a sex tape.
Which could be a hint of Kit perceiving Hol’s behavior as being somewhat infantilizing. I think it’s clear he likes her the best out of the whole cast of people we’ve met so far but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he also found her infantilizing.
Selectively infantilizing, I guess. To the point where her referencing the “life lesson” seemed to Kit an unusual turn of phrase for her.
On the other hand, Guy took his own infantilizing to a whole different level and tried to have Kit made what seems to be equivalent of ward of the state.
We got quite lot of hints about Kit in this chapter too. Primes and traffic jams being some examples I enjoyed. But we also found out he had one of those government scam jobs where they don’t pay you (workfare, I believe it’s called) but you get “experience” and can lose benefits if you don’t take it. He loses this job (and, for a time, his benefits) because he can’t help trying to make the shop more efficient (for shoppers rather than for the sellers).
Don’t look at me. 
On Ch 1 I’d only read a few pages into 2. On 2, I might have read the first page of 3. I consider myself a bit behind right now partly due to work travel and partly due to reading half of Wolf In White Van during my travel reading time.
I imagine it has its charms. I do find the U.S. way annoying (particularly self checkout) but just the volume of people grocery shopping just in the aisles tends to be a bit much for me. Even “in queue,” at least there’s a limit of about three people around me at any given time. 
For the chapter as a whole, I felt like it was somewhat slow moving but on the other hand I read it a lot faster than I did chapter 1 though it was a bit longer.
It’s a rather big build up for a red herring. I’ll be a bit disappointed if that’s all the more it is.
I definitely agree. What’s perhaps funny is that I do know what causes the jams. Somewhat offtopic so I’ll leave it there. I never connected this type of analysis with anything on the spectrum but I haven’t done much research on autism either.
[quote=“Raita, post:22, topic:52243”]
Was Guy really such a shitty father or is there more to this? Because who names a baby after a kitchen?[/quote]
I’m not sure. For me, it’s too soon to say on that front. There are certainly parts about Guy that aren’t great particularly with his cancer and some of his behaviors there.
[quote=“Raita, post:22, topic:52243”]
I can understand how dying can make you bitter and angry and mean, but when Kit thought about their relationship, he said that maybe he only likes Guy because he’s there, because he has become imprinted on him like baby duckling do.[/quote]
That may be just him thinking about things. On the other hand, I’m not really sure Kit does like Guy. We don’t have enough information yet and maybe it’s just that this is a particularly unlikeable circumstance but I don’t see any reason to suspect Kit does like Guy. At least not beyond what he thinks necessary.
To an extent, I suspect it’s reflective of WoW rather than Diablo 3. Cash sales may not be allowed but happen outside the game. Not necessarily a case of skill but time available to play the game.
Well, if you’re particularly bad at something to start with, you can end up being really stunningly good at small bits of it with a lot of effort. For me and socialization, anyone I’ve told about my socialization issues has been a bit confused. I put up a good front and there’s some areas where I’m really good at. Keep me in a reasonable size crowd and no one will notice I can’t do small talk, strike up a conversation, be around a real argument, etc. Put me up on a stage and you’ll think I’m the calmest and most confident person in the room.
Outside of a few small areas, though, I really have no idea what I’m doing and the only thing that keeps my awkwardness from being noticeable is that I have learned not to say anything in those situations.
3 Likes
The quarry company wants to expand-- presumably what can be extracted has already been extracted, but more deposits lie under the house and garden… I think Guy wants the money for Kit.
When the quarry on the far side of the back garden wall was still being worked, up to four years ago, the twice-weekly blasts used to shake the whole house and make all the bells ring faintly. It was as if the house was trembling and crying out in alarm. Now they’re going to extend the quarry and the house is going to have to go; Guy is selling the place to Holtarth Moor Quarries and it’ll be demolished. I don’t entirely know where I’ll end up but if there is one thing I’d like to keep from the house itself – I mean, apart from all my own stuff, in my room – it might be this box of bells here in the kitchen.
2 Likes
That hadn’t occurred to me. That would be lovely, and (I think) a rather realistic development of Guy’s character, perhaps being the one way he can express love and thanks to his son, since he must know, on some level, what an utter shit he (Guy) is being to Kit on a day-to-day basis.
1 Like
It felt to me like Banks had read about this (you, him, and I may have read this same website with the animations?) and thought it was neat and wanted to put it in the book; Kit briefly discusses his theories for what causes the phantom traffic jams and they’re basically correct.
As an avid reader of trivia (and e.g. someone who gets stuck in wikipedia endlessly clicking on random links within the articles to other articles), this is the kind of thing I know I would try to include were I to write fiction, so perhaps it stood out as seeming like that for me for that reason. Maybe Banks thought it up himself from observing traffic from an overpass, of course! I think we can reasonably expect that Banks himself is autistic, or at least has a very analytical mind.
1 Like
That was exactly the paragraph I was thinking of: they haven’t blasted off new rock in 4 years. “WHEN the quarry…was STILL BEING WORKED”. This is an example where I wonder if we can trust what Kit says. Is this merely what he has been told? What’s the real reason they have to abandon the house?
I think we’re interpreting the sentence differently:
I don’t take this to mean the entire quarry complex (various sites, pits, holes, hills, whatever), but the particular pit that abuts the back garden wall. Implying that the company is still in operation, just doing work in a different part of their land.
For example “My neighbor stopped mowing his lawn by my garden wall four years ago.” - does not imply that the neighbor stopped mowing the lawn entirely, just the portion by the wall.
Anyhoo, I have no idea what the future chapters may hold, other than Ch 3. which is currently uncomfortably reminding me of In Bruges.
1 Like
Oh, I see. You could be right!
Although, I find it hard to believe the house wouldn’t still shake if they simply moved their blasting site to a different section of the same bowl of rock. And wouldn’t Kit talk about watching the work being done in present tense if it were still happening?
It’s possible they had to stop because the rock they need to access is on Guy’s property and there was some sort of legal deal in place,allowing him to keep the property until he dies. Which would add its own wrinkle to the story!
1 Like
I can tell you from personal experience (11am, every day for 20 years) that houses a mile or two away from quarry blasting will shake every time it happens.
3 Likes
I hadn’t but it’s basically the same info, yep. Slashdot linked to a study (possibly a few years back) about the phenomena. I actually based my whole driving strategy around my analysis of the results. Mostly because I was bored (because I was driving) and it was fun to play with.
1 Like
Yeah that’s why I linked to that site - the guy there basically made a hobby out of it and it’s fun to read through everything on there. I changed my own driving strategy as a result too.
Actually I strongly feel like I initially found that guy’s site through Slashdot - perhaps a comment on the very same slashdot story linking to the study you saw 
1 Like
I read about this sort of behavior here on the BB. Although my father always advocated for something similar. My wife thinks I’m nuts, especially since so many cars pull in front of me. Whatevs.
1 Like
Very specific interests and analytical thinking are common (though by no means necessary) symptoms of an autism spectrum disorder. Obviously many other people can and do have those characteristics, but when thought in the context of an autism, it’s one of the better (in the eyes of some people, even “cooler”) forms of repetitive behavior (unlike stimming or rituals, which can be pretty nasty).
It’s the focus on these narrow interests that sometimes leads AS people to become really good at something, which has created the myth of autism as a superpower which makes you a super genius. Again, it’s just a mind that works a bit differently; it can be an advantage (and I use it for all its worth, personally), but for the most part it causes social difficulties, which can fortunately be quite well managed if you learn (with proper support) to properly adjust, and even better managed if everyone else understands what autism is and isn’t and maybe even learns how to interact wíth autistic people (which can’t be counted on, hence why it’s mainly our own problem to deal with).
I hope people aren’t bored by all this talk about AS - it’s just that so far in the book, it has been a very relevant aspect of our narrator and not much has actually happened yet, so I keep coming back to that. Plus, maybe people will learn something new that not only helps them understand Kit and the book but us real people. If you already know this or don’t care to read about it, feel free to skip my posts. 
I just want to be sure I don’t take the focus away from other matters people might want to discuss (tell me straight, I don’t get hints).
Well said. I can put up an amazingly good front in social situations if certain conditions are met.
- it’s at a place I already am familiar with (one previous visit not enough)
- there are less than 12 people (on top of me)
→ If it’s 1-on-1, it has to be someone I know extremely well (boyfriend/mom/a close sibling, typically)
→ If there are 2-3 people, I know all people previously, but only one has to be known extremely well
→ If there are 4-6 people, I know at least 2 people comfortably and I know others previously, except max. 2 new people
→ If there are 7-12 people, I have to know one person extremely well or 2-3 comfortably, plus I have to know at least half the people there - I’ve rehearsed lines (on a particular topic, or just chit chat)
- I have arranged it so (either my location, or otherwise) that I have to talk as little as possible without it seeming like I’m avoiding talking
- I have a place to go and hide for a few minutes every 15-30 minutes (bathroom, usually)
In these perfect circumstances, to new eyes, I can seem to be social (meaning here that I go and socialize with others), talkative (just the right amount), well-versed in casual chit-chat, friendly and a person who smiles and makes eye contact. I’m none of these things.
If some of these conditions aren’t met, I can still seem alright. I’ve learned most proper reactions, etiquette and facial expressions, but I can’t always remember to smile (I have to keep reminding myself) and I sometimes react with the wrong amount of surprise or worry (the latter being a hard expression for me to simulate), but I’m good at looking like I’m listening (not that I’m not actually listening). I can usually hide most of my stimming in public and channel it into other activity I do with my hands, and I can hide some compulsive behavior as well (some I don’t even use energy trying to hide, because they don’t seem so strange to people). I’m bad at body language; it’s not that I don’t use any, but I tend to start flailing my hands around pointlessly so I try to not move. I’ve learned not to pointlessly argue with people when I know they’re wrong and could prove it, because it makes me seem petty and a party-pooper, though I sometimes can’t help myself.
It’s hard for me to follow some subtle cues, especially if there are a lot of people and my senses are overloaded, and that’s where I often get caught up and slip up with something else. I can be following a conversation between 4 people, analysing their body language, expressions, sarcasm, inside-jokes… and suddenly I notice I’ve forgotten to keep my posture and facial expression in check and and huddled in a weird position, with my mouth open, looking kind of spaced. Or if I’m having a really exciting conversation, I can start stimming with my hands (shaking them up and down - think about the stereotypical autistic movement, yet a little lighter and without the back-and-forth) without noticing. The longer I have to socialize, the more I show nervous symptoms, like picking my hair and skin.
Of course, sometimes I stop trying, and hallelujah it’s such a relief. Like the last time at school, during the first week and with my post-rehab blues, during day 4 of the week I sort of stopped giving a damn when I was around my classmates (7 people who I’ve known 1,5 years and am relatively comfortable with most of them, having slowly yet surely let my guard down a little) and just didn’t even pretend to be a normal, social being but huddled around and didn’t force smiles and didn’t make effort to strike up conversation. Still talked with them sometimes. And they cared. So that’s nice. Not that I should never make an effort, but there’s middle ground there where I don’t have to use all my energy to act so normally yet still make an effort to make myself understood and understand others.
7 Likes
Seems to me like it’s easier to just not bother with social situations. That’s always worked for me.
2 Likes
That’s always Plan A! But that doesn’t really work for school and work, though, does it? I doubt I’ll get such an ideal job right off the bat that I don’t have to bother with social situations. I’m not talking about parties here, god no, I’m talking about school (and later work) and obligatory events like my sister’s wedding. Sometimes you get ambushed, like when I wanted to quickly visit my father and he failed to inform me there would be three people I’ve never met there (in addition to his girlfriend, a person who I just barely know). And then dad left me with his girlfriend and a stranger, alone, for like 20 minutes in the house. I was just picking up a computer part. Life throw these things your way sometimes, it seems you can’t always help it.
Plus, I’d like to be better at social situations. That doesn’t mean I want more of them, just that it would be nice to not feel so anxious, and not bothering with social situations hasn’t helped me with that so far. I also like having friends, which is like having a partner minus the sex (though there can be sex too); having 1-3 good friends would be ideal. So far, no dice. Why are friendships so hard to start and maintain, and relationships easy? Is it the sex?
3 Likes
