Clay Shirky to white liberals: Trump could win, so here's what you have to do

If she works hard and doesn’t blow it by getting complacent (big “if”) she’ll squeak by. It won’t be the landslide one would expect from other Dem candidates given an opponent this clownish, but it won’t be the typical 2% margin we’ve been seeing in the popular vote.

The VP pick was encouraging, since Kaine will likely deliver her one swing state. If the DNC platform throws some bones that satisfy my fellow Sanders people (whose votes she’ll need to win) I’ll feel even more confident that she’s going to really fight on all fronts.

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It’s impossible to predict the future but it is possible to prepare for it.

‘Will Trump win?’ is a question without an answer. Fearing that Trump will win is not in itself defeatist. Not doing anything about it is. Hence Shirky’s reason for writing this.

And I agree. We can, and must, do something about it.

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Put it this way: on the current trajectory, Trump is likely to win.

If you want to change that, you need to change the trajectory.

You also need to be prepared to deal with the Trumpists even if he loses. He isn’t going to go down gracefully.

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It’s telling that you frame things not only in terms of fiction, but fantasy.

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Agreed.

I and most of the people I know plan to do our part.

But at the same time, speaking of the worst case scenario as if it’s already an inevitable foregone conclusion IS defeatist… especially when there’s still so much time left until the election.

No Hilary & Co should not be smug, they need to be diligent and laser focused.

I don’t agree; too many of that actual powers that be have too much at risk to let it happen. They very much want to keep the current status quo as is.

Personally, I don’t believe that the outcome of our presidential elections relies on the votes of the citizens; I haven’t since 2000.

But I still vote in every election, because my ancestors fought and died for the right.

That, in a nutshell, is what really concerns me; not the charlatan, but the people who mindlessly support him.

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Stories are stories. They still serve the same purpose, wherever they’re set. It’s the arrangement of the ideas, not the clothing we put on them.

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This really depends on how you’re measuring trajectories and probabilities. In terms of polling, Trump has been behind, made small gains at some points, and levelled/fell, so what length of time you look at, which polls, etc. can tell whatever story you’d like.

As stupid as it is, the undecided/swing/generally-not-all-that-bright voters in Ohio, Fla, PA, VA, NC, and a handful of other states will decide the election. In Electoral College terms, Clinton’s currently ahead in every swing state save NC (and maybe AZ, which suddenly turned into a swing state because Trump’s been performing so poorly there), and has maintained leads in the polls in those states with a tiny handful of exceptions. That is how elections are won and lost, and Trump’s currently losing in a landslide.

The risks entailed in him winning are unprecedented, and organizing, staying vigilant, donating time/anything to the right causes are all important, but there’s nothing like a likely Trump victory in the numbers out there right now (things can change, of course).

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Linking this to the existing BB topic:

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A clarification: Leftists and the working class will stay home in November.

Not because of defeatism but because leftists, the working class, and Jeffersonians will refuse to vote for another candidate for the long, long line of American governments which ignore the clearly-expressed and -polled popular will It’s been clear to lots of people for a long time that …majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts.

They will (or already have) come to the conclusion that the best thing is to let the whole system explode so it can be rebuilt.

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Trump is not the problem, he is the symptom.

The millions of people who are planning to vote for him are the problem.

This is the candidate they have been waiting for, and they will still exist regardless of who wins in November.

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Some people want to watch the world burn…

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Actually Slovenia had the biggest share of the educated population, the air force and the artillery, declared independence and won a war in a couple of weeks. It’s the Balkan Switzerland, and despite problems in 2008-9 hasn’t done badly.

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Some will, not all.

And like @Snowlark said, none of us can actually predict the future (though you do seem to be giving it your best shot), but we damn sure can prepare as best we can.

The thing about ‘explosions’ is that there may not be anything left to rebuild.

Agreed.

Clearly.

I’m not giving up.

Period.

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As for talking with pro-Trump relatives (and other acquaintances), I’m finding out that it’s such a hidden racist attitude I’m having to deal with that would require a much longer period than by November to fix. This crap isn’t going away anytime soon. Much less by the next presidential election.

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Roger That!

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The other scary thought is that Clinton could win. And the really scary thought is that those are really the only two likely outcomes.

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tRump has to carry California to win. He won’t get 10% of the vote here in Ca. That equates to a lose for tRump in the general election.

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A lot of leftists like to cry “the worse, the better,” but in the privacy of the voting booth most of them understand that they and their families would suffer the most under “the worse.” Which is why a lot of them (especially if they’re in swing states) will find themselves in the voting booth in November instead of staying home.

They’ll better serve themselves in the medium term by continuing the party reform movement Sanders started than by allowing a grifting narcissist and his right-wing authoritarian followers wreck the country over the next 4 years.

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Ug I KNOW.

I have decided that I am actually going to start asking questions whenever my right wing relatives make memey shitposts to clarify their thinking.

For instance, after one conversation, it seems to be completely true that whenever someone talks about immigration laws, they are actually afraid of Muslim rapists and pedophiles forcing Sharia law on Americans to destroy our society.

I think I might be better off just deleting the Facebook app…

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Me neither. I’ll do what I can can to make sure things don’t go to Hell

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