Yep, it absolutely is, which is why I apologized and clarified upthread.
K. G’night.
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You still seem to think that me saying that women should be listened to when they speak is “not a huge gulf” between directly calling someone a misogynist…
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I really don’t know…I never saw the whole Michelle Obama conversation. I am sorry that you were accused of that (and if you ever do call someone a misogynist, they will most certainly have deserved it).
I was trying to figure out the source of the hostility in this here thread, but I see now that the origins are buried in the sands of time. My concern is the level of hostility in general, not who was right or wrong.
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It literally just happened… @cannibalpeas said that they apologized and clarified, and they argued that there isn’t a “huge gulf” between what I DID say, and calling someone misogynistic. It’s an exchange that’s several posts up.
So, once again, I’d like to be shown when and where I DIRECTLY called someone that. I don’t think anyone said I did, but some believe I implied it.
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I am not aware of any other exchanges besides the one that you mention. I think that it comes down to the “huge gulf” point, and I think that you are right on that point.
She wasn’t the only one. No matter how many posters pointed out that it was a non-starter, based on M Obama’s own repeated statements over the years, the same “oh, well, I heard this rumor” kept being re-introduced.
Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And it happened to more than just one person in that thread. Unfortunately, most of the people making that point don’t really count, being women and/or people of color. So, you know, not really authorities on the subject.
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I was trying to comment only about what I have seen in this very thread, but it seems that I am not really qualified to talk about this thread without having seen the inciting thread about Michelle Obama.
I will butt out now because I am simply missing too much information on the other thread to add anything meaningful. I apologize for butting in here without knowing the significance of the Michelle Obama thread.
Yeah that’s the thing. The person who is being so vehemently defended here was kind of rude to me actually and pretty dismissive (in my perception). I definitely didn’t and don’t feel taken in “good faith.”
I don’t know why they get a free pass on that either? I dealt with it by muting the thread but fair or not it also did NOT leave me with a good impression of that person at all.
But that’s ok because it gives us the excuse to blame the person we want to blame? We can hunt down the uppity ones and put them in their place maybe? Like I’m not ok with that actually.
I’m not ok with the shape this has taken.
I feel like there are some deep personal biases feeding this and probably some typical petty backbiting too. Because I don’t see why it is ok to be rude and dismissive to me and flag me when ultimately it looks like I had the right idea about this rumor.
It sounds to me from this thread that Mindy is straight up being accused and blamed for something that she might not have actually said which feels like scapegoating a visible vocal member for what might amount to little more than petty resentments and vague sentiments.
Well that’s just people drama and there’s not much to do about it… but I’m also not going to pretend I don’t see what I see and make whatever I make of it all either eh? What else can I do?
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I think that it’s safe to say that right in this thread we’ve seen women being accused of saying something without them having said it, not being listened to and being piled on by men. That’s misogyny. I mean whole walls of text of it.
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Yes, the conversation has turned into a matryoshka of the very thing it was meant to discuss…
And we’re getting nowhere…
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Did anyone learn to listen to women from the exercise?
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I like to think that the people not chiming in are listening quietly. I really wish that I had done so as well. I really am sorry for butting into a conversation where I had no place, and I will endeavor to do better next time.
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I did clarify by saying I never said or agreed that animated gifs are a form of bullying.
But as soon as I responded I was told this topic wasn’t about me even though my name was mentioned specifically. Apparently a poster can be mentioned but if they respond they are making it about themselves.
I also never said mean girls are getting people banned.
I said there is a group(clique) of posters that do exactly what’s going on in this topic, they twist a posters words and when that poster tries to clarify they get ganged up on until they either walk away, or get so frustrated they respond in a way that gets thier posts removed.
In the case of the animated gif comments I clarified a couple times and got accused of making the topic about myself.
For the life of me I do not understand how answering a specific question to me is making it about myself.
This topic is also very hard to follow because there seems to be a sub topic about another post that I never saw.
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I think this can be an example of one of the things that’s been identified as a trigger for some tension. Most of the reasons you outlined for why the threat response is set to a sensitive level here are things I already identified in my comments above, or others detailed after. But in a large thread with many commenters, the nature of net communication makes it easy to overlook a few thoughts here and there or lose sight of which mostly familiar avatar said what. So then I’m left to debate whether you “ignored” that I already said most of what you said, whether you are “piling on” to others who made similar comments, or whether you are just saying your piece based on one comment out of more than two hundred without necessarily seeing that others have said and I’ve already heard similar things.
In this case, I assume option C because I’m familiar enough with you as a commenter to know there’s no hostility or judgment there. But if there were a little more tension in the room or on this topic, it may be easier to read ill intent. If there were a different gender dynamic, that could be a perfect example of mansplaining in that you’re paraphrasing parts of things I also said. In both of those cases, we’d see an unintentional but very real emotional touch point that could spin this off into a thing. I think those sorts of scenarios are some of the situations where things can escalate quickly and without intent. As others have observed though, that kind of escalation is easy enough to mitigate with some clarification and communication. And as a group, I think we can handle that while still maintaining a healthy “immune response” (thanks to whoever brought that metaphor in above) for the bad actors who do see this community as a feeding ground.
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This complety retcons that interaction.
Mindy’s question in that thread asked how they knew Obama was running and the response, over several cryptic posts, was “I know people who know things.”
That’s not at all clear.
And being defensive in response to requests for clarification of what appear to be microaggressions is a really sure sign that those microaggressions were at best careless if not intentional.
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I was there from the beginning before any flags and respectfully disagree. I didn’t miss anything.
ETA:
But honestly, they don’t owe anybody that.
But again, that particular post or thread isn’t really the issue I’m bringing here. It’s a pattern of hostility and misrepresentation of peoples words and intent. Sure, lots of us have blind spots, which I always try to own when it’s pointed out to me, but I also know that a lot of harassed posters don’t fit the “privileged people who don’t know what’s really happening here” narrative
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As I’ve said numerous times upthread. If this isn’t your experience here, awesome! But a lot of people have witnessed a growing sense of hostility and harassment by a few very vocal members and their personhood often does not fit the narrative being pushed here. I’m just the dumb white guy who said something about it.
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You’re welcome to disagree, but I specifically SE flagged the post with that cryptic message as being a passive-aggressive non-response.
When it’s following a microaggression, failing to respond just means people were right to interpret it that way.
It’s the only example we have, since it’s what kicked this off. People upthread have been begging for other examples. As @chenille pointed out, vague aspertions are unhelpful and even harmful.
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Cool. Moderation works!
