The one I’m referring to goes by the name of an 18th c French feminist and suffragist poet and playwright. See how easily things go off the rails with assumptions especially when those debates are memory holed and flagged off the board?
Whom; Aloisius?
I admit I thought that member was male, but it would probably be best to let them make that clarification for themselves. If you meant someone else, then please make that plain, but my point about not deigning to speak for other people remains firm.
At this point, you seem to be full on White Knighting, and I reiterate my sentiment from earlier: that isn’t actually being an ally - it comes off as performative.
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Who here on this thread is suggesting marginalized people shouldn’t be listened to when feeling/being harassed? It is the point of the entire thread, after all.
Which users were throwing flags to shut up the marginalized on this thread? Yes, rhetorical.
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Then don’t. But you’re the one who’s said you don’t want to actually give names, and want everything to be vague accusations instead. Are you starting to see how that might be a problem yet?
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No. But again, I am not about to go @‘ing people and dragging them into a storm against their will. I hope they’re having a great day completely unaware of this situation. They were pretty fucked up the other day (as directly relayed to me).
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Yeah, if that’s what’s being demanded of me I think it’s a big problem. It’s the exact same as not believing someone when they say they feel traumatized.
Is it so hard to believe that people here feel harassed and threatened and that it often has nothing at all to do with matters of demographics? ETA: or that if it does it’s very often a misread, misgender, lost thread continuity, etc?
I am going to suggest at this point that if the conversation is going to turn to comments about specific users behaviour rather than the broader topics that have already been copiously discussed, that we might be best to end this discussion here. However, I will leave that decision to our TL4 leaders, but I will ask that people stay respectful in the meantime. I know these are charged and essential topics and concepts, but we have to draw the line if things get abusive here.
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I feel like a lot of this topic has been a vehicle for abuse, tbh and question if I should have even spoken up in it.
Respectfully, I would submit that this conversation has already been abusive, judging by how many people feel abused by it. And I think all the some people who feel some thing with no verification makes that worse.
Since it apparently isn’t the person who I meant or the person I thought cannibalpeas was referring to, I have no idea who I just got accused of misgendering. I don’t think I did, but I have no way to even check…I just have to trust that now I’m the bad guy here. That’s a small example of what’s been happening. If anyone thinks that isn’t a disastrous way to try to hash things out, I submit the last four hundred comments and the women ready to quit from how they have gone.
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Being vague out of some sense of ‘preserving civility’ is massively unhelpful, IMO. It only increases the muddying of the conversational waters here, thereby increasing the potential for miscommunication.
As @chenille already stated, they directly mentioned two distinct members by name, both of whom appear to be male-presenting, and yet you just made an accusation of intentional misgendering.
No, it’s really NOT, and that comparison is rather insulting.
It’s starting to feel like even trying to converse with you about this rationally is utterly pointless.
You seem to have reached Granite State that this unnamed person was victimized by the exchanges here, and you seem to have decided that their right to safely comment here somehow supersedes everyone else’s.
That may not be how you intend to come off but there it is:
You’re talking and advocating for one person/group of people; YOU ARE NOT LISTENING to everyone else who matters just as much.
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Fwiw, I don’t think anyone is the “bad guy” (or other gender-appropriate version of such). I also don’t feel abused or harassed. I do think that this is now a discussion between maybe 15 mutants and that a large slice of the population here isn’t being represented (no, I don’t mean cis-het white men). It’s definitely not reflecting the broad spectrum of users or their experiences.
No, that’s the point. I don’t think it’s intentional. But I think things blew up in that thread because of incorrect assumptions about them, including gender. Which is what prompted me to say something in the first place.
It is most certainly not one person/group. It just isn’t and we keep returning to that concern being dismissed out of hand.
I often do.
Yet I don’t see you standing up for me (or Others) so adamantly whenever we come under attack.
Now, it should also go without saying that I don’t need or even want you to; I am more than capable of defending myself.
I just want you to consider the optics.
That said, I am done. This is pointless and I don’t do ‘sunk costs.’
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Throughout this thread I’ve tried to lay back and let the conversation unfold and learn as I am regularly reminded to do. Yet, people keep demanding that I answer for things I can’t answer for without making people more miserable and it becomes again about me. It’s not about me (that’ll be a pull-quote for sure). But when I respond that there is an issue and maybe certain people don’t see/accept it’s real, it’s just completely dismissed. What else can I say?
That’s because you’ve set yourself us as spokesperson for some invisible army. We literally know nothing about them except what you assure us is definitely true. Do you actually not see how that’s setting up your words – facts or opinions, no way to tell – as somehow more important than all the direct personal testimony you are placing it against? How else are we supposed to engage with that?
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But that’s the thing. I’ve seen people repeatedly do that in other threads and they’re just ignored or flagged away. Assumptions are often made about who they are and their intent and it just gets paved over. Just like this thread.
Okay, I won’t dismiss it – what IS that issue?
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I’ve seen people get ignored or flagged away in this thread too. It’s incredibly frustrating to see, and yeah, I freely admit I’m not inclined to give much benefit of the doubt to the people who have been ignoring them in favor of some silent majority they claim they are speaking for.
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And I’m sorry, but I am just not going to put people who have asked me to hold their confidence. You have to choose to or not to believe me.
ETA: I am quoting that for consistency, but don’t think it was the best phrase if because, as @Melizmatic pounted out above, it does smack of putting vulnerable groups against one another and that is certainly not my intent.
I would amend it to say that all sorts of users, beyond demographics have expressed this repeatedly in the past and directly to me the past few days.
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I agree. Flags have been grossly overused in this thread. It stifles discourse and degrades their usefulness. I hate that users have felt they had to delete posts, disengage or even delete their accounts because of it.
