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Unfortunately there’s not a handy, simple word for citizens of the US. We can think of “Americans” as shorthand for “United States of Americans” I guess.
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Fair enough, “never” was incorrect (as it usually is). I’m always going to be wrong, but in this case I think I was considerably more right.
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Judo implies using an opponent’s weight against them. It doesn’t work so well when the opponent has spent 40 years effectively entrenching their feet in a concrete foundation engraved with: “America is the Greatest Country on Earth, thanks to free markets and low taxes, so you’re fine and we don’t have to change anything”. In that situation, it’s time to break out the chisel and hammer, using it artfully rather than bluntly.
In addition, playing on one’s opponent’s own terms in judo or trying to compromise with them only ends up with you flat on your back, again and again. This is something that “moderate centrists” and Third Way Dems never seem to learn.
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You’re conceding that America is already great, which means that making it better won’t make much difference and is not terribly urgent.
Someone said that the Pledge of Alleigence is a test of political orientation. Liberals understand it as an exhortation to build a society “with liberty and justice for all”, while conservatives believe that such a society already exists and policies intended to address inequality will only spoil it.
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You’re just delineating yet another fundamental difference between conservatives, who care more about how things look, and progressives, who care about the substance. Much like arguing with an idiot; playing optics with a conservative is a losing proposition, dragging you down to their level and beating you with experience.
The reason the GOP sticks to optics even when they have people with deep subject matter expertise is that they know that they lose if it comes to substance. That was a conscious decision they made when they started pursuing the Southern Strategy. The key benefit to them of the Southern Strategy was having power without having to do the hard work of actually governing.
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That’s the basis of all culture war politics. If people will vote you in because of your “values” you don’t need any polciies.
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Yeah, this term has been watered down to the point of meaninglessness. It’s just another right wing dog whistle that means racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, anti-immigrant, pro-gun, etc, etc.
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It’s not about optics. It’s about choosing your battles. What do you win from the America is Great vs American Sucks argument? A gold star?
First of all, it shouldn’t matter You can stipulate America is Great and still make it better. So why is it important to agree America sucks? To get people to recognize there are problems? What if other countries were worse on every metric than America? Does that mean we shouldn’t improve things? It’s not about where we are, it’s about where we want to be.
Second, it’s a waste of time and effort. Yes it is, no it isn’t, yes it is, no it isn’t. Why waste time winning that argument when you don’t have to?
Third, there are more than liberals and conservatives and they are the tie breakers. Two people arguing over whether you are a piece of shit or not? Who you gonna side with?
Yes. So stop engaging them on their turf. Do an end run. And I’m not talking about dressing up ugliness. I’m saying if you all you present is that ugliness instead of presenting a better future, you’re shooting yourself in the foot. And comparing to other countries is NOT an effective way to presenting a better future.
You don’t have to alter facts or truth. But I may be an example of if you come across as an asshole, no one is going to listen to you whether you are right or not.
Yes, David Cross is not going to solve our problems. He’s just going to point them out.
No. But do you think it’s important to agree that America is worse on all these metrics than other countries? Because if you don’t, if you think agreeing on observable reality is a side issue to persuading people, you are already so far into the optics over truth camp you’re ignoring it like a fish does water, and I don’t think there’s anything I can do to reach you.
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I’m confused. If America is Great, why would there be a need to Make America Great Again?
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Because it’s great except for all those people. You know. THOSE people. If we just get them to shut up and let the REAL Americans have the floor, it will be great again. Just like it was in the 50s, where THOSE people knew their proper place… /s
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This, again, is admitting defeat. The right has had a lot of success with the empty rhetorical argument that anytime people point out the flaws and shortcomings of the US government they claim the American people are being attacked and insulted. Pointing out the problems in government isn’t equatable to calling the citizens pieces of shit, its equivalent to pointing out that is how their government is treating them and calling for them to stand up and not take it anymore
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That’s a more expensive antibiotic - but not that expensive. NHS Tariffs are a good way of seeing what the market cost of drugs are. We pay a fixed £9 per script, but the true cost to the service is listed in the tariff.
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You win more people in the middle acknowledging that America isn’t great, and pretty much does suck for them compared to the citizens of other countries. That’s how you start effecting change.
Providing a watered-down version of the lies that conservatives and Libertarians tell may have been effective in getting unaligned voters to make the margin for Clinton in 1992, but it isn’t a recipe for the changes needed in the 21st century.
If you don’t first present the ugliness of late-stage capitalist America in stark terms, the complacent middle will keep assuming it’s beautiful (especially if conservatives have a media machine constantly blaring that mantra). Follow-up videos may point the way to the better future, but they’re not as effective if someone thinks that things are just fine as they are.
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It’s clearly biased but there’s some decent brass tax on wage statistics in there worth watching. Jump to about 1:30 mins in.
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yeah, but its’ emotional, so it can’t possibly also be logical. The two don’t go together, ever. /s
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I’ve observed this so many times. Improvement, especially improvment based on learning from other nations, would mean that the USA is not the best at everything, like they’ve been taught. So therefore improvement is opposed on the basis that there’s no way that the US could possibly improve.
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Take your own advice. Stop engaging them on their own turf. Stop conceding that America is “great”, because that implies that making it better is just a matter of tinkering at the edges.
What if other countries offer models of a better future?
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