I ain’t ready for the dirt nap, but an afternoon nap is in the cards.
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Oh, please, muser, you’re making huge assumptions about me and about how easy I think voting is. You’re setting up straw men and knocking them down, but how does that actually engage with what I’ve written?
Yes, voting is hard sometimes. Yes, getting to the polls and voting has been difficult for me sometimes (I’m sure you think I have a chauffeur and am driven to the polls and ushered to the head of the line, but alas, that has never been the case) And it’s been much harder for a lot of other people.
But, there is NO legitimate excuse for not voting if you are physically and mentally able to get to the polls and vote. That’s not a position of privilege, that’s a position of reality - look at what we are facing because so many millions - millions - of voters just didn’t bother to vote, because reading about the issues and then going to vote was not important to them.
I have not mentioned voter suppression, because if you have been prevented from voting that’s not your fault.
I’m not talking about people who can’t vote, I’m talking about people who won’t vote.
Attacking me because I’m an old white guy, and you have an easy stereotype to fit me into, instead of engaging with what I’m actually saying is pretty ignorant.
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so, how do you know which people can’t vote, vs which won’t?
Where’s the line? If someone potentially could leave work early to vote, but their pay would get docked and they would have trouble affording it, are they in your virtuous “can’t vote” category, or are they the “won’t vote” bastards? When they read your post, will they believe that you’re calling them out? Will their spirit be uplifted or beaten down by reading what you’ve written?
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In Arizona, you can vote by mail. It’s very convenient, the ballots arrive 2-3 weeks in advance so, you can take your time and vote when it’s convenient. I take my ballot, sit at my computer and research every candidate and every issue while voting. I never feel pressured and I believe that I understand the issues and candidates very well. Also, once you mail the ballot back, you can check online to see if it has been counted. They are quite good at counting the ballots as they come in, I generally see my vote as counted within three days of dropping it in the mailbox.
It’s not necessary to know the exact numbers. The fact is, some people, who COULD vote, don’t. That has nothing to do with the people who CAN’T vote.
And, once again, slowly: Absentee ballots. No need to leave work early.
Voting is central to being a citizen. Yes, I’ve lost hourly wages I really couldn’t afford when I was living hand to mouth because I took time to vote in elections that had big consequences. If that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes.
It’s once a year for federal elections, and when it’s an election which could change the mess we’re in, yes, it’s something everyone should do. Wouldn’t you go hungry for a few meals to be able to vote? If the choice is between Beto and Cruz, and I’ll have to miss lunch for a couple of weeks if I vote, I certainly will vote, and be glad that I did. It’s that important to me, and to many millions of other people in the world.
The millenials and others who just don’t bother are the problem, not working people who always do vote in important elections, even when that requires sacrifices. You guys are setting up straw men - the biggest problem is young people who CAN vote, they just DON’T vote.
A) Citation Required
B) even if that were true, you think browbeating them is the way to get people to vote?
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“Hey, ma-a-an, lemme tell you about the '60s…”*
[* disclaimer: the leaders in the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam movements were mostly from the Silent generation]
Here’s the disconnect: this may be easy for you but it’s not so easy for a young person to do the same, especially when she can lose her job because she takes too long coming back from the (inefficient by design) polling station. Now add in being the parent of a young kid who definitely won’t see the long-term benefits of missing a lot of lunches because of that.
Young people generally don’t get to make their own work hours or throw around their weight as white collar managers to take some extra time during the workday to vote. If you truly want young people to vote make it as easy for them as it is for you.
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And if your boss say yeah you can go vote but don’t fucking bother coming back to work afterwards, or tomorrow. Which is a reality people face.
ETA and they may be not just paying for their own food and rent but kids and spouse as well.
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If the company has an HR department, that’s the next stop, since an employer is prohibited from preventing you from voting by federal law, and definitely prevented from firing you for it. You can also go to your state employment department - they fine companies that do that kind of crap, but only if you stand up for yourself.
Or you can get up earlier to go to the polls before work, or go after work. Or talk to your boss if you have two jobs and have to vote between them, and need extra time. Most employers will accommodate you.
Yes, you should avoid getting fired. And yes, this is yet another straw man you’re putting up in an effort to defend the people who can vote, and don’t have any actual impediments in their way, but who won’t vote.
If you’re being prevented from voting by someone else (and that includes being illegally fired) that’s not your fault. If you can vote but don’t vote, you’re a failed citizen and a pawn of the GOP.
Thanks, I needed a laugh today.
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You really think I’ve always been an old guy with plenty of time to go to the polls? Take some basic biology, that’s not how humans work. It hasn’t always been easy but I have always voted in important elections. I’ve sat out a handful of elections which would have changed nothing (candidates with no opposition) but otherwise I’ve made my choice. If you’re a citizen, and you’re not actually being prevented from voting by someone else, you need to do that.
I don’t get what is so difficult to understand about this concept.
Goody-goody gumdrops for everyone who makes the active endeavor to vote; now, let’s make the act of voting more accessible to all citizens.
Personally, I’ve been involved in campaigns that register people to vote and help them get to and from the polls on election day.
Just sitting there bitching and moaning online about how “this is all group X’s fault!” won’t change a damn thing.
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No, but since you could vote you’ve always been a white guy (and probably an educated one). That immediately conveyed a lot of privilege, even before one political party started actively trying to disenfranchise people of colour and single women. And yes, that party also makes it more difficult for young people to vote, whether they’re students in college towns or young members of the precariat.
For a generation that drones on and on about how important it is for those “lazy” young people to vote and had the electoral clout to make serious changes, the Boomers as a whole did dick-all over the past 40 years about making it easier (and at least a quarter of them went to great effort to make it harder for some young people – those are the Olds being parodied in the ad).
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Honestly, vote-by-mail, supplemented with precinct-level ballot pick-up locations for those who don’t have a mailing address or otherwise can’t receive mail for some reason, is the right way forward IMO. Moving election day to the weekend or making it a national holiday is ultimately going to do little to address the inherent difficulty that those at the bottom of the economic ladder have when it comes to voting. A weekend or national holiday isn’t going to close all of the grocery stores and fast food chains and retail outlets in America; these places don’t even close for Christmas most of the time. (“How much time off is customary?” inquires Scrooge.) Considering how much of a vested interest large corporations have in not letting the peons vote, it seems like they’d consider any double-time pay they were required to provide as a reasonable investment in their continuing profitability and not change a thing.
The biggest practical problem that single-day elections have (ignoring any and all political shenanigans with voter suppression and disenfranchisement) is throughput. It’s not out of the ordinary to see reports of hours-long lines at many precincts across the country on election day. The more populous the area, the longer those lines tend to be – and coincidentally, those also happen to be areas with higher percentages of Democratic voters. Shifting the day around doesn’t really do much to address that problem. Early voting also helps, but it has the same issues with transportation and access that we currently have.
Please, do go on.
I’m super glad that there have never been insurmountable obstacles to you being able to vote. Understand, though, that not everyone has the same amount of access to our democracy as a white man does, and institutional systematic oppression is a considerable anti-voting force that many cannot – or simply do not have the energy to – overcome.
Consider, for instance, that many states bar convicted felons from being allowed to vote, even after their sentence has been completed. Couple that with a war on drugs which has disproportionately impacted the poor and people of color (especially black men), and you’ve eliminated whole swaths of the voting public. In Florida alone, eight percent of the state’s voting-age population is currently unable to vote for this reason.
And if I’m living hand-to-mouth, in what possible universe am I going to have the time or energy to go up against a company with a flotilla of lawyers with a complaint that’s easily brushed off with any other possible excuse for termination? Unless you get “we’re firing you if you leave to vote” in writing, it’s a he-said-she-said debate, and absent concrete proof, nothing is going to be done to penalize that employer.
Impediments to voting don’t need to be in the form of padlocks on poling locations. Build up enough obstacles and people will give up. Not because of apathy (though our current disaster of a political system makes that an easy end result as well), but because they only have so much time and energy for things, and many will prioritize keeping their job or making sure their child is looked after above spending potentially hours in line to vote.
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It’s federal law - it trumps “work at will” state law. There is no state in which it is legal for an employer to prevent an employee from voting or retaliate against the employee for voting.
Works for this thread and everything else!!
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Uh, huh, tell us another. You leave early to go vote, they make up some other flimsy excuse to fire you, and you have no recourse other than go find another crap job. That’s life in the real world for America’s young workers.
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Has that actually happened to you, or are you imagining that’s what might happen? Claiming that that’s how all jobs are now sounds - imaginary. Most American employers value voting and understand that it’s illegal for them to prevent their employees from voting.
And are your working hours so long that you can’t vote before or after work? Most employers are ok about voting, and don’t make a fuss if you need an hour or two off to vote, although for most people that’s not needed, since the polls are open early and late.
Yes, there are some bad employers out there. No, they’re not all like that.
