Reply to myself because I just thought of something and posting two separate threads felt awkward.
People seems to be under the assumption that people only plays characters with their same gender. I have absolutely no issues playing a game with an all-female cast (they exist, and no, they aren’t sexual in nature or full of lesbian innuendo, it’s just a thing that happens), I don’t need to play as a guy to feel confident in myself, dunno.
We have seen stupidity like the publishers of Remember Me, a game with a female protagonist (which I thought was kinda cool), objecting to the game being lead by a female because it would make players feel gay [sic].
Is this an actual thing? No, really, is this a thing? Because I don’t get it, and I’d certainly would question someone’s manliness if they feel “gay” for playing a game led by a woman or girl.
The person the article here is quoting isn’t adding anything of value to any discussion. It’s basically a rant. “If you don’t understand it, I’m not going to bother explaining it.” Yeah, that’s helpful.
So, basically, what we are saying here is that every story written needs to be written from the perspective of both genders. No, even better, all writers of novels need to start writing for each of the 51 genders Facebook has defined.
Let’s go with that.
My point? Not everything can be done to appeal to every other person. Not every story HAS to be written to make you happy. The writers of these novels aren’t trying to be fair to both men and women, they’re writing a story as they see it. The same can be said of the video game industry. Yes, there’s more character representation from the male point of view. A lot of that is because much of the game designers are male. The writers tend to be male. They write what they know and they can’t always cater to every single gender out there, even if it’s just counting two.
To suggest that absolutely everything needs to be equal in representation is ridiculous. Go ahead and demand that G. R. R. Martin write his entire A Song of Ice and Fire series using the opposite genders for each role and see how he responds.
So you can’t see how exclusion is sexist, but, since you seem to say that the plot has Zero demand for a particular gender, then the reason for the exclusion is…?
I went & saw the trailer, I too can see no reason whatsoever for having only males represented.
Looks also like it’s going to be a real stinker, a console game made for people who like to watch games as opposed to playing them. But that’s just my taste, I prefer sandbox mmorpg, so I won’ be buying a ps4 to play that POS, I’m considering buying whichever console it is that has Dust 514 tho, can’t remember which it s offhand. Just a lark, really am mostly over fps.
How often does that happen? The last major release I can recall that let players choose from an array of female-only characters was Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball, which wasn’t exactly the most progressive depiction of women in gaming.
No one I know assumes that & I know a bunch of gamers, old like me & young too, both genders.
That might just be you brah.
BTW you would poke fun at a man, question his masculinity, who didn’t feel comfortable being restricted to always or just almost always playing a gender they don’t identify with?
So, you either would poke fun at, question a woman’s femininity, who didn’t feel comfortable being restricted to always or almost always playing a gender they don’t identify with in order to play the games they like? OR…?
Because that’s how it often is for women.
You take the cake brah, you made the case for people who would like to see big title games with selectable characters be more inclusive as a matter of course. Especially this game, which you say has no reason not to include selectable female avatars.
Claiming that any critique of any situation for not being equitable is a demand for all things to be equitable at all times in the manner represented by the critique is plain ridiculous. I’ll let someone else look up which combo of logical fallacies that represents. Hey I know, you do it.
No, no one even began to breathe the thought of a suggestion that every story written needs to be written from the perspective of both genders, let alone 57. See above.
Let’s go with that, because it’s funneh to imagine you actually think that. Makes me laugh
Your point? You laughably go on to say that not everything can be done to appeal to “every other person” in a discussion based around an art form where in most of it’s history everything has been done to appeal to every other person. HILARIOUS BRAH! (think about it)
Then you went back to a really, really silly basis of comparison, static novels compared to video games. No, the same can’t be said, unless by novel you mean a select-your-own-adventure young adult novelty novel. From there you fall back on “We’re Mostly Guys, Brah!” a routinely debunked argument.
You wrap it up with a repeat of the above by way of example, one that Martin himself would laugh at, comparing books to video games.
There’s a decent series by that title that actually goes out of its way to point out a few positive examples of the depiction of women. I gather there must also be an entirely different series that is nothing but thoughtless misandry; I’ve never actually seen a copy of that one anywhere, but I sure hear people complain about it a lot.
Can you just imagine if George R.R. Martin did something as crazy as “creating a strong female character who takes on a leadership and/or physical combat role”? That would be downright redonkulus!!
It really depends on whether you think games should be something that are created to reflect gamers themselves or created by the author(s) who has ultimate control over the artistic direction of project, including characters.
Personally I think they’re stupid to not include female characters because why not? They’re pissing off potential customers. Ohhhh… the in-game audio or character interactions would be wrong if the protagonist isn’t female? That’s meh IMO… but at the same time I am also meh at the interweb’s rage over this, since I believe video games to be a work of art and I’m not going to tell an artist how to make their art. What’s next… People lobbying Rowling to rewrite Harry Potter as Harriet Potter to give the audience options?
Not the best franchise for comparison—most, if not all, the Harry Potter tie-in games include Hermione Granger and other female protagonists as playable characters.
A careful reading of what I have written here would reveal that I have never said this game should not allow female characters.
I have explained that it does cost money to do it, and that the “maths” in the original rant are unrealistic. So far nobody who claims specific knowledge or has shown the ability to discuss the details has disagreed. I have also said that those costs will vary from game to game. I never said the cost was prohibitive for this game.
I have asserted that the possibility of gender switches constrain the story some but that most game stories are shallow enough to minimize this issue.
I have no opinion on whether capcom is lying about the decision not to allow female player characters being story driven. It is certainly plausible that they are lying.
I like having the gender option, particularly in RPGs.
I don’t think that shoehorning female playable characters at lower fidelity than male characters into many games is a good way to fix the paucity of good female playable characters, so I oppose that idea. I also think it would be stupid to try. People would hate it and rightly so.
Indeed. And don’t forget Cersei Lannister, Melisandre, Sansa Stark, Lysa Arryn, Asha Greyjoy… and on and on.
In a lot of computer games, and in a lot of science fiction, fantasy, and adventure stories generally, there’s a trope, in which you’ve got a group of about five protagonists: four men, one woman. That is of course better than not having a woman as a protagonist at all, but the lack of diversity in representation leads to its own problems – for instance, you tend to imply that in this imaginary universe, there’s only one way to be a woman.
One of the most extraordinary things about A Song of Ice and Fire is that it has such a rich array of complex and interesting characters, about half of whom are women. And look at the many different personalities these characters have, the different roles and the different perspectives they develop. It’s quite interesting when Brienne of Tarth first meets Catelyn, and is so impressed by her that she immediately pledges her service to her.
And it just occurred to me that in that encounter, ASOIAF passed the Bechdel test.
Hang on, ASoIaF passed the Bechdel test back in the first book (when Sansa talks to Arya about her dancing lessons).
I wonder what people would think of an RPG based on ASoIaF. You could be female, but there would be limitations on what you could do… you couldn’t be a Septon or a Maester… you could be a warrior, but you would suffer from serious lack of respect in many cultures; I mean, you could be a wildling or Dornish or you could be an assassin or Eastern, but to be a knight of the Seven Kingdoms? I mean, you could, but you’d have to endure pretty much unending sexism like Brienne does. Would people be bothered by that sort of ingrained sexism if it’s written off as being part and parcel of “setting”? I suspect they would.
You know that there was an RPG based on A Song of Ice and Fire (or, rather, The Game of Thrones, as it had some people from the TV Series in same roles)?
This is your first thought? Uh well, try Mount and Blade. Playing as a peasant woman is the harder difficultly level and most of the lords treat you like dicks, but that’s ok because you can defeat them later in battle and ransom them for profits! Bonus points if you save other peasant women and train them up all the way to Sword Sisters.
While the wrong genre, No One Lives Forever is a good example of this. Plus it does it with humor and style!
I’m not aware of any ASoIaF CRPGs or MMOs, sorry, I’ll have to look it up.
I don’t know that allowing a woman of noble birth (or indeed, any woman) to be a knight with no consequence would be true to the setting. How the female characters deal with the expectations of their place in the world is such a major theme of the setting. Sure you could be Ser Mary Sue, serving under Stannis Baratheon, but it wouldn’t be aSoIaF unless you had to deal with adverse consequences for choosing to be a female knight in Westeros.
I can’t remember; when I find it I will let you know - I think I found the gif first, but found the rest on vimeo by googling ‘I am brought low by the matriarchy’ or something.
