What the specific changes are is entirely immaterial. The regulations could be you have to stand on your head for forty-five minutes and denounce Biden. Any changes that extend the layover time put the crew at risk of incurring a 14–28+ day quarantine in a Chinese quarantine “hotel” potentially stranding both the crew and the plane. Any of those issue are way more significant than returning people to their origin and letting them rebook on another airline.
Delta lobbied the Chinese authority (CAAC) long and hard for the permission to resume flights and a quarantine also puts Delta’s ability to fly to China at risk.
Aviation is not an industry that deals well with surprise changes and this is not a “both sides” issue. This is not a crew not wanting to work issue (since they were very nearly half way there). This is entirely China taking a severe approach to containing a new COVID outbreak just ahead of the olympics. Unfortunately for them it blew up in their face.
And if you can just show us evidence that this is the case, I would agree with you. But you keep saying it over and over again without evidence.
And I keep telling you that airlines need to have contingencies in place because delays happen, so how much of a delay certainly matters. If they can’t handle a 3-hour delay, that’s on Delta because weather out of PVG can easily cause that. If we’re talking about a 48-hour delay, that’s on the Chinese authorities. We need to know that detail.
We do not have that information, so let’s put it to rest until we do.
I’ve already linked to the CAAC’s rules that state a 14+ day quarantine is required for crew returning overseas. I’ve already linked to a few articles that quoted airlines as stating that extended layover puts crew at risk for a quarantine. It’s not a 3 or 48 hour delay, you’re looking at a 336 hour delay.
And you keep acting like an airline is going to turn a trans-pacific flight around for no reason. Are you seriously trying to argue that Shanghai authorities would allow a crew to have an overnight stopover with no quarantine??
Yes, for Chinese crew returning to China from overseas. Return means crossing the actual border.
As far as I know, the crew need not even deplane in such a case. There are rest areas on long-haul planes for crew, and business class seats can also be used for this purpose.
You are assuming that Delta could not have done otherwise, but we have not seen that.
ETA: And I would just like to point out that the country that they ultimately ended up returning to also has a lot of draconian rules and so they did in fact end up leaving both crew and passengers stranded in a foreign country. In fact, because China is not allowing foreigners in at all except under very special circumstances, I would say that they left most of the passengers stranded in a foreign country.
ETA: And I would just like to point out that the country that they ultimately ended up returning to also has a lot of draconian rules and so they did in fact end up leaving both crew and passengers stranded in a foreign country. In fact, because China is not allowing foreigners in at all except under very special circumstances, I would say that they left most of the passengers stranded in a foreign country.
Okay, what?? The flight was crewed by Seattle based employees of an American airline and returned to its origin airport (Seattle). The crew were most certainly not stranded in a foreign country. As for the passengers, they’re entirely free to book another flight out on a different airline. Delta paid out for lodging and presumably refunded the cost of the tickets as well. Any lack of flights to Shanghai is not due to American regulation.
Quite frankly your insistence that crew either sleep on the plane overnight shows little knowledge of aviation. There are often (but not always) crew bunks, but never enough for all the crew to sleep at once.
Proposing that the crew subject themselves to a 14+ day quarantine is precisely why a litany of other airlines have stopped serving China (e.g. EVA, British Airways, Royal Jordanian, Eithad) and those that still serve China either do so by intermediate stops in East Asia (e.g. United) or don’t have a choice (Cathay). If you’ve not been paying attention there’s been an exodus of foreign pilots from Cathay Pacific precisely because the working conditions have become so awful.
Due to a recent outbreak Hong Kong is now requiring crew for cargo flights to quarantine for two weeks. Of course it’s still a lot easier to find English language news out of Hong Kong than it is Shanghai.
Or, as the US Embassy in China puts it:
All travelers, including U.S. citizens who enter China, are screened upon arrival and subject to a minimum 14-day quarantine. While restrictions around domestic travel within China have eased, local quarantine requirements can vary significantly between cities, and regulations can change very quickly. All international arrivals should be prepared to complete quarantine at a government-selected facility or hotel at their own expense, with no control over the amenities, even if they maintain a residence in China. Cities and provinces within China may also require quarantine for domestic travelers, regardless of nationality.
Do you not understand what “arrival” and “enter China” mean? When you deplane at an international airport, you are in a transit area until you cross passport control. You have not yet “arrived” and you have not yet “entered” China.
Airlines are cancelling flights because their crews based in China cannot easily enter China between assignments, but you have not shown a lick of evidence that the crew on this flight was meant to or would have had to leave the transit area, at which point they would have been subject to quarantine.
Frankly, you are begging the question on this point: saying that they must have turned around to avoid quarantine because that is the only reason they would possibly turn around.
Says the guy who doesn’t know the difference between arrival and transit areas and who didn’t see where I said that business class seats can be used for this purpose. And who doesn’t realize that crew sleep in shifts on long-haul flights.
