I am not sure what I would do with a tractor without a 3 point hitch and PTO. I like the idea of electric, but charging would be an issue. Actually, I have been thinking of using one old diesel tractor as a generator. It is two wheel drive, which can lead to some excitement on uneven ground. But it could probably run a generator forever, if I rigged one to the PTO. I also have a 45K psi water pump that I have been toying with using on the same tractor, to power a water jet cutter.
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Incompatible firmware detected.
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I’LL JUST BET YOU’RE PROUD OF YOURSELF FOR THAT!
(I know I would.)
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That’s what the park rangers call “makin’ a triceratops.”
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Yeah, if you’re already heavily invested in the 3 point hitch, you’d want to convert the old tractor (instead of using one of the systems from before the ferguson/ford 3point became the standard). But the old farmall tools that use their earlier system (for example) are typically dirt cheap if you can find 'em.
Electric tractor PTOs are generally speaking easier to build and maintain than mechanical or hydraulic linkages to a drive motor. My own little electric tractor’s PTO is actually a NEMA 10-50 plug, like you’d put on a household electric range, which is extremely convenient. But the tractor takes a very long time to charge because it’s 1973 lead-acid battery technology, which is extremely inconvenient.
If you build it I hope you will post the build online! I find water cutters visually mesmerizing, though… so maybe I shouldn’t be encouraging you.
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It is a very cool pump. It is largely made of ceramic composites, and was part of a crazy expensive piece of gear. It used to be a slightly larger one of these- http://www.sierraequipmentcompany.com/products/productdetail/nlb_40250d_40_000psi_water_jetting_system1.html
But the engine was damaged. The pump itself is in great shape. I have been thinking about what to do with it for a while, but have not started anything yet.
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Mahindra tractor’s software does not require hacking.
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I am so conflicted on this. On the one side, I want to be able to fix my shit, which is why I have warranty countdown clocks for most of it. And $500k equip fucking up a $6M harvest should be a sue-able issue, since companies with (computer) service contracts for their production hardware are allowed to sue their vendors for losses when the vendor fails to deliver. The slow service & signing away the right to sue are the better immediate fixes and not hard to implement.
Then I think of my family & especially my FIL, whose tombstone should read, “hold my beer and watch this!” People who understand cattle, soil, plants and weather in their blood and bones and brains, but for whom carburetors are complicated, and electronics are boxes full of magic smoke, and software is the arcane muttering of high priests of the dark arts. (The last is totally true.) With the caveat that my FIL cannot afford a new or even recent Deere or Case, and will never have the credit to finance one, and for which the universe should be deeply grateful, I don’t want my FIL anywhere near 10 tons of harvester with his repair and code onboard. He would, accidentally/through cheapness and Dunning-Krueger, install the most malicious malware that turns the harvester into a giant rolling scythe headed directly for the closest elementary school. (It’s potentially possible, given tractor capabilities.)
It’s not that my farming relatives aren’t intelligent (well, some are), but they lack an essential skepticism we urbanites build up by rubbing elbows with thousands of strangers every day. They’re susceptible to con artists, from MLM to itenerant painters (no, really, the barn should not have to be repainted every two years if you’re using modern paint) and roofers, to sales jobs. They actually believe the sales patter that says this tractor is reliable and will never let you down, so when it’s time to sign for the service contract, they choose the Bronze Minus plan, because they believed the sales guy that they’d never need it. And then they do need it, and get screwed. What farmers don’t learn at ag school (if they attend at all) is software debugging and firmware development. Expecting them to be good at it with no training is just not a long-term solution.
I feel like right to repair has the potential to be a financial windfall for the bad actors, no matter which way it goes. If RtoR succeeds, then any repair made voids a warranty or service contract, for which Deere has already been paid in purchase price. If it fails, they get to keep providing slow, expensive service.
This is where government is actually useful, and thus this will never happen, but ideally, the state leges should be getting representatives from farmers and implements providers into the same room and hammering out a compromise, something to the effect of, diagnostic equipment must be purchaseable or provided, as well as most components. Implements providers must offer free or low-cost (winter) training on the equipment and installation, including software debugging and firmware implementation.The farmer can run diagnostics and install replacement equipment with a 30 day check-up code, and upon the installation, an appointment is made for service to come out and check the installation and machine. That lets everyone get back to work, but ensures the lifetime and safety of the machine. And I don’t think limited right to repair should apply to anything that weighs less than 500 pounds; those should have full rights to repair. But a two ton car or three ton truck or 10 ton harvester-combine is by its very mass a hazard to others.
And going back to the old, fully mechanical tractors, with straight pipes and no emissions controls – no. Electronics have made farming safer and more profitable for everyone, but especially the farmers and their families. Rural air quality is already a nasty problem, because farms become dust on the wind and the equipment is big and heavy, so relatively dirty. Most farmers of my grandfather’s generation were functionally deaf by age 55, and most had major, serious injuries from their equipment, or knew someone who did and didn’t survive. (Gramps dropped a bush hawg on his foot and broke every bone; he limped for the rest of his life. He was lucky. If the bush hawg had been running, it would have chewed his foot off in two seconds) Farming is dangerous; if technology can make it safer and more efficient, it’s in everyone’s best interest to do so.
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Susceptible to sales, often because they live in small communities and haven’t developed a callus of protective skepticism. You can track MLM/pyramid schemes and reports of itenerant fake home repair, and map it on top of Deere sales/service scamming, and the maps are pretty damn close. The Deere dealership and sales folks are at least casual friends because their kids are at the same school, go to the same social events, and so their buyers don’t think their salespeople will lie to them. Then when service turns out to be crappy, the sales people can blame some far away entity like corporate or the big city.
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If SHTF, traveling repair wizard might be a job opening in farming country.
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Yeah. Seriously. Should be, actually. Used to be, once upon a time. For that matter, that’s what Deere is doing, just on the corporate model.
My grandfather inherited and farmed the land, one uncle went into electrical engineering and made a career out of rural electrification, the other went mechanical engineering and machining and was the local wizard. That used to be the model.
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The replies so far are very different from what I was expecting! I grew up in wheat country, Canada - so maybe that explains it. Besides John Deere, I think of Massey Fergusson, New Holland, Versatile. Apparently Case International has died out. Now living in Japan, for rice farming, almost everything I see (and everything I’ve had the pleasure of operating) has been Kubota.
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Geez I wish an old friend, Pete was online. he is old as dirt, runs 170 odd acres, rebuilds hit and miss motors for fun, and his wife of 50+ years–i kid you not–drives a Cougar. If there is something mechanical, either Pete or another dear friend of mine MOTPU can fix it.
Pete doesn’t seem to have any mention online. The MOTPU is the engineer behind One Drop Design. If you ever needed say a steam powered rocket with better than NASA precision, those are the two people I’d go to.
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Case is still alive, and kicking, and doing pretty well. Case doesn’t get the attention because they’re about 1000% more transparent, and their service is significantly better. But they’re a) a little more expensive up front, and b) their service contracts are more expensive, and c) they put their money into machines and R&D, not marketing (nobody sells CaseIH branded fleece and flannel, fr’ex) rather than marketing, so they don’t have the public reputation and recognition. They make good equipment; it’s what our former farm manager, and the guy who bought most of our land when we sold up, uses, and the Deere problems are not on his list of 99.
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How about this? Not even a full competitor - someone makes an alternate electronic management system for JD tractors running open-source code, and then farmers can just rip out the copyrighted bullshit wholesale, and burn that on JD’s lawn.
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“This legislation is being vigorously opposed by an unholy alliance of automotive companies, Apple, and Big Ag, all of whom want to keep their cushy, government-enforced monopolies intact.”
Sorry, but how are these examples of monopolies? All of these companies have competition, all of these farmers have other choices when they make purchasing decisions.These companies are trying to exploit proprietary exclusiveness on their customers, which is disgusting, buy is the term “monopoly” justified here?
I’m just a little touchy about the pejorative use of the term “monopoly”, as I am seeing a lot of that going on by people trying to sell rooftop solar who are trying to paint all electric utilities as evil.
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Cory is referring to monopolies on the right to service the equipment, provided by DMCA and other legislation that outlaws independent service on completely spurious grounds of intellectual property protection.
Sadly not true. But Case/IH is a better company than John Deere, and costs accordingly, so your major point was certainly correct.
If you’re pointing out that life is not safe, and nobody gets out of here alive, that’s fine. If you are saying my rural relatives are “jest too iggernant to figger out dem fancy lectronics” I can’t support your stereotypical condescension. My relatives - with high school educations for the most part - are perfectly capable of teaching themselves how to use a logic probe or oscilloscope, and also capable of figuring out how to avoid the need to do so.
My 1973 garden tractor has no emission controls because it’s completely electric (and came from the factory that way - it’s all OEM, no conversions whatsoever and a valuable collectors’ item). It has one MOV and five diodes and no integrated circuits or transistors at all; it’s almost completely driven by rather large relays and mechanical switches.
A huge modern combine with marvelous electronics may well pollute more than a really properly tuned and optimized antique tractor. After I rebuilt my old 1963 Karmann Ghia in the 1980s, it burned cheap low octane unleaded gas and got 36 miles to the gallon - and I’m pretty sure it produced less pollution than a modern Hummer or Escalade.
The point being illustrated by the two preceding paragraphs is that electronics and emission controls are not what prevents environmental degradation. Intelligent use of resources is what does that. My uncle the inventor - who lived in a rural farming community and built complex, dangerous machinery for a living despite having no formal education past 9th grade - was very much into green technology and recycling.
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First point - nobody gets out alive - is my intention, in general. If a modification to heavy equipment has the potential to seriously harm innocent bystanders, that modification needs to be evaluated on the same safety standards we apply to emissions tests and road worthiness inspections for unmodified vehicles. (Including coal rollers.) In my specific family, your second point holds, but they’re mine, and I get to say that about them, having been up close and personal when their hold my beer moments lead to screaming ambulance rides and/or funerals. I don’t apply that second frame to anyone else, just my specific dopes. At some point we can go deep into the dysfunction that drives my specific familial culture of fail, but it’s not germane.
On Case branded products – that’s not actually what I meant. Every company does some degree of branding stuff; many sell it through their own stoes (most of the stuff in that link actually is coming through the CaseIH store, not stocked in an Amazon warehouse, with a couple of exceptions; they’re using the Amazon storefront, like a gazillion other independent merchants. It’s the largest marketplace in the world, after all.). I meant something very specific, which will come up with an image search for “John Deere Fleece Fabric”. It’s going to bring up some non-fleece fabrics, too. The point is that Deere has branded and licensed itself like a Disney Princess or a sports team and sells that licensed brand through third parties that have nothing to do with their core competency. There are Deere toddler bed sheets and people make JD stadium blankets from the branded fleece and decorate their (grownup) bedrooms with Deere quilts and matching curtains. Deere tableware? It’s licensed and manufactured by Gibson and sold through various box boxes. It’s The Mouse model, which is a whole different degree of marketing. (I keep brushing up to the term “cult of personality” and I’m really trying not to use it because I don’t think branding is exactly that, but there’s some relationship.)
Electric machinery is a different beast in terms of noise and pollution – and kudos for keeping yours running; same with Ghia. I’m sure your Ghia is less of a stressor on the atmosphere than anything that weighs 10 times more, including an all electric, brand new bus. How do its emissions, noise and safety stack up against a Fiat 500 or a Smart, which is the same class? Let’s keep comparisons of hardware in the same class – my handsaws have a teeny carbon footprint because it’s all muscle power, but that doesn’t put them in the same species as an electric compound mitre saw. (Same genus, sure.) We have to compare a 3T tractor to a 3T +30 years.
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