I kind of empathize with the dilemma here that they faced. They clearly wanted to offer merch based on the new movie, and this may not have been the smartest choice; what were the options?
They could have just done the costume sans any references to the ink, but then its just a leaf skirt…that wouldn’t work. Someone probably pointed out correctly, the tattoos are integral to the identity of the character and culture. So maybe the better option would be selling temporary tattoos with the costume? That would still leave a kid walking around essentially naked.
I am guessing someone may have thought of this as comparable to these?
Ultimately it may have been the only options were to do this or offer nothing. As a white male I do not get offended by this…
I just think its sort of stupid and wonder why anyone would wear it.
I this instance it is a child’s costume depicting a fictitious cultural character. If I were Dwayne Johnson I doubt I’d see this as offensive. I wonder if he was spoken to or asked about it?
Are you Polynesian? If not then keep telling me how you’re an expert on their opinions by posting Facebook comments without having any knowledge of that person’s background. If you are, please post your opinion, not other’s, because I would really like to hear it. Yes, many white people are consistently assuming the worst about people’s intentions and assuming others are offended, so they are basically telling other cultures how they should feel. It’s a sort of racism in itself that I don’t think is talked about enough. I’m not an expert in anyone’s thoughts on this other than my own and I think I’ve been pretty clear what my thoughts are, that this is a damned if you do/damned if you don’t type scenario. Hence the very mixed opinions on it. Is a white person allowed to be offended by something that might possibly maybe offend another culture? Sure! Do I really take that’s person’s opinions seriously without first researching the opinions of the culture that might actually maybe be offended? No, not really.
I just don’t think it’s that simple. You’re not wrong, but there’s a lot more to cultural appropriation: at the very least…who’s appropriating from whom, how it’s being done, when it’s being done and the context. It’s also not the only way cultures are grown. Ultimately I agree that there shouldn’t be impermissible barriers between cultures, but if there were, this movie wouldn’t even exist. I don’t see objecting to a Maui skin suit to be the same as saying everyone stick their own sandbox.
Could be in some cases, though in other cases maybe there’s something else going on that you’re missing. In this case you falsely assumed that this wasn’t an issue for Pacific Islanders, but was only an issue for white people, since you were assuming instead of listening. Maybe that’s happening in other places too?
Me neither. I still will not passively accept/ignore racism where it crops up, since offensiveness isn’t the core problem there.
It wasn’t only in the old times that being fat was a sign of wealth. There are cultures all over the world where this is still the case. The darker your skin, the poorer you are too, as it means you spend your days toiling in the sun. It’s looking at these issues with Western-glasses on that leads to a lot of misunderstandings between and about cultures.
This is all true, but expect cultural appropriation from all cultures to accelerate in modern times. Simply because of the instant acquisition to the knowledge and norms of different cultures.
It’s far more of an issue for middle-class westerners than for Pacific Islanders. I’ll bet the house on that.[quote=“nemomen, post:46, topic:85931”]
I still will not passively accept/ignore racism where it crops up
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Respect. Nor will I. But I won’t passively accept false positives either.
This is true, and I understand the context. My reply was specifically to someone saying they wouldn’t be willing to dress up as Storm because she was a black character, though (they said nothing about trying to change their skin color).
Even in regards to skin color:
I think we also need to be careful that our reactions to historical badness aren’t counterproductive, and I feel like a lot of the things the reaction against blackface has expanded to are going well into that territory. Blackface is and was bad because it’s mimicry intended to mock.
This costume, however, isn’t: It is primarily a tool for aspirational mimicry. That, to me, seems like the exact thing we should want to encourage in order to improve things in the future. Do we want our children to see aspiring to be like someone of another race as unacceptable? Do we want them not to lionize and model themselves after iconic figures because those figures are the wrong race for them?
Especially for a costume like this, where the skin has to be some color because the costume is simply impossible without it, refusing to sell a costume like this because it’s non-white (while continuing to sell skin costumes that are white) seems far more racist to me. It’s literally sending the message that if a polynesian or dark skinned person wants to dress up as an iconic male character, they have to be white, and that seems significantly more harmful to me than a superficial relationship to an old and bad practice that happened for completely the opposite reason.
Maybe I’m wrong about the balance, maybe withdrawing the costume was white, maybe we shouldn’t allow kids to play dress up as non-white characters, but I’m honestly not convinced it’s a good idea. I’m open to being convinced, but right now I’m really not.
I am not sure you have spent a lot of time thinking about this. Your model seems to be: “if this is a real problem I would have heard about it directly from large numbers of the affected minority, without signal boost from majority allies, despite that I don’t spend a lot of time reading material produced directly by that minority.”
If all the members of the minority group had to spend so much time making themselves heard all the time to people who wouldn’t otherwise listen, without majority help, that’s a lot of labor that they can’t spend on other things, like actually having jobs and caring for family.
I troll the office halloween party AND the ugly xmas sweater competition. This might have been killed two endangered tropical birds with one tiki torch. Sigh.
You have no idea how long I have spent thinking about this, nor how much time I spend and have spent in minority communities all over the world. So let’s not make assumptions shall we?
This is not a new issue. It’s a well-worn record. Middle-class whites have been publicly offended on behalf of others since the dawn of the internet.[quote=“kcsaff, post:52, topic:85931”]
If all the members of the minority group had to spend so much time making themselves heard all the time to people who wouldn’t otherwise listen, without majority help, that’s a lot of labor that they can’t spend on other things, like actually having jobs and caring for family.
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So wait. Hold on. You’re saying that minorities are too busy to complain and that whitey has loads of time on his hands to do it on their behalf?
Jesus dude. Way to stereotype.
I was going to reply to this with basically what @GulliverFoyle said. White people have MOST of the popular heroes. It’s not “unfair” to not also be co-opting the heroes of other races. There’s no “keep to your own race” in my comment, it’s “white people need to stop thinking everything should be theirs.”
Spiderman, for example, is a kid from Queens. There’s no racial characteristic inherent in that. He could be literally anyone. He’s only “traditionally” been a white kid because white guys were drawing the comic and “white male” is the “default human” for a lot of people. A black kid dressing up as Spiderman isn’t pretending to be a white kid, he’s just being Spiderman.
Whereas Storm is an African woman born to a “tribal princess” in Kenya and her African heritage is intrinsic to her character.
As already noted, the people who initially raised an objection to this product were largely of Polynesian descent.
What is wrong with middle-class white people standing in solidarity over an issue that affects non-white people? That goes back waaay before the internet.
Couple more thoughts - why are we not celebrating this to a degree?
Let’s assume for a minute that it would be inappropriate for a white kid to wear this. How many millions of POC kids in the US alone who would this be completely appropriate for?
Can you imagine a white kid 50 years ago wanting to pretend to be a POC character? (Let’s see, you got Luke Cage and Luke Cage. Take your pick, kid.) Hell they even white washed/lightened up Muhammad Ali
By definition, a minority group’s got smaller numbers to amplify a message. Not only do minorities not have that bullhorn, but they’re often put on mute. @kcsaff was pointing out that the level of effort to be heard for a minority group can be far, far higher. Having seen that pattern play out many times, I fully agree.
Okay, I’m not even gonna get irate at anyone who doesn’t see the issue with this bad idea for a costume, I’m just gonna post the obligatory and hope they see the light:
I see no evidence of that. Only a BBC article with 3 tweets. Is this the majority of complainers? Were these the initial objectors? Are you sure you’re not projecting?[quote=“Brainspore, post:58, topic:85931”]
What is wrong with middle-class white people standing in solidarity over an issue that affects non-white people? That goes back waaay before the internet.
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Absolutely nothing. When there is a cause worth fighting for. This just feels like the immune system attacking a non-threat.
If they live amongst your culture they’re a minority group. If they’re an independent people in their own land then your label of ‘minority’ may be accurate in population figures, but it’s not really the case is it? And to honest, it sounds a little demeaning.
