Do VPNs unlock secret airfare deals?

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Originally published at: Do VPNs unlock secret airfare deals? - Boing Boing

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My daughter recently booked tickets on the Stansted Express train from London to Stansted Airport. She found if you book on the Stansted Express website, there is no opportunity to enter your railcard number. A valid railcard takes 30% off the price. However if you book on the operating train company website, you can buy the exact same tickets with the benefit of your railcard.

I’m not sure if this is a deliberate ploy by the train company, or simply because a lot of travel booking sites are a hot mess. JAL, for example, is still a complete nightmare to navigate, despite a major update over the past year or two. Expedia won’t allow a family group to book a set of airplane tickets in one operation unless they are all exactly the same class, so everyone has to take a hold suitcase or no-one.

It’s extraordinary that we are 25 years on from the invention of Lastminute.com and things are still so difficult.

To get closer to the topic, I’ve tried using a VPN and different computers to check flights, to defeat the geo and cookie factors, and it made no difference. I’m in the UK looking for international flights. It may be different if you’re in the US looking for domestic flights.

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Not a VPN thing - but it’s well worth knowing not to use thetrainline.com to buy tickets as they charge (how quaint) a card fee for all cards. You can book any journey using any rail operator - although it usually makes sense to use one of the operators on your intended route as most of them now automate delay repay payments when your train inevitably gets cancelled/redirected/flooded/abducted by aliens.

And for anyone visiting the UK, you can get hefty discounts on train tickets using a BritRail Pass at BritRail Pass

IMHO, the worst travel site I have ever had to use is British Airways - when it actually works it is terrible, but it is often broken in various ways that means you can’t complete a booking. The upside of it being down is that you then don’t have to fly BA.

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Nah, that’s just one of many factors that goes into dynamic pricing. You also often hear that you should clear your browsing history so they don’t know that you’re definitely planning to fly to Boston for your college roommate’s wedding or something, but the booking sites are looking at how many people are planning to go to Boston that week compared with historical weather trends and everyone’s relative credit scores.

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At least with US airlines I don’t think they price discriminate based on IP address. But a flight from ABC to XYZ might be priced very differently than a flight from XYZ to ABC on the same day.

I can’t imagine the cache trick would work because airfares are available through various global distribution systems that I don’t think can be updated in real time based on a single user’s browser cache.

But there are things airlines do that might lead people to believe something like this. In particular, the number of seats at any given fare is limited and most fares have advance purchase requirements (often 1, 3, 7, 10, 14, or 30 day), so there are a number of reasons a fare might increase between when you start searching and when you actually decide to book, including:

  1. Someone else bought the last seat at the cheaper fare.
  2. You increased the number of passengers in your search and the number of passengers now exceeds the number of seats available at the cheaper fare (note that most airlines won’t include different fares in the same reservation, so if you are booking for two people and only one seat is available at the cheaper fare, you should book that seat and then come back to book the other one in a separate reservation or else you’ll end up with both seats at the more expensive fare).
  3. You started booking a ticket but didn’t finish, and the last seat at the cheaper fare is now tied up in your abandoned booking until it expires in the system (I’m not sure how often this happens, but I think it’s theoretically possible with some airlines).
  4. Enough time elapsed that the airline either updated their fares generally or an advance purchase requirement for the cheaper fare is no longer met.
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I’m talking about third-party booking sites like Expedia that use tracking cookies to monitor your online activity in order to make inferences about how much you are willing and able to spend when they show you how much flights are going for (especially when it comes to things like additional fees). Getting rid of those cookies might result in a slight change in the quoted prices, but there are so many factors, who knows?

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I’ve followed a ticket price for several days, only to have it pop up when I finally am ready to buy. I am unsure if tracking had anything to do with it, but will frequently go back and check again with a VPN if the timing looks suspect. Again am not sure if a VPN helps. YMMV.

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AFAIK Expedia doesn’t set prices for airfare. That’s done by the airlines. Expedia is just an agency that provides an online interface for you to browse and purchase those fares, which is why the fares tend to be pretty much the same (with very limited exceptions) whether you are searching Expedia or some other travel agency or the airline’s own website. But if you really think Expedia is jacking the price based on your browsing activity, you could easily circumvent it by just buying your ticket directly through a non-Expedia-affiliated channel, because it would be a pretty massive antitrust conspiracy if every online travel agency and the airlines themselves were all sharing customer data in an effort to gouge customers.

The price often pops up when I’m ready to buy, too. But it’s almost certainly because of a change in inventory or available fares that affects everyone, not because of my individual IP address or browser cookies. Airfare is very dynamically priced and changes all the time based on lots of different factors (including both actual and forecasted supply and demand, fuel prices, competitors’ fare sales, and the passage of time).

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What I am saying is that the airlines (or rather the airline APIs) provide pricing data to Expedia and then Expedia displays a price to customers, and those prices are not necessarily the same.

Does it ever pop down, though?

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all tickets are equal. The tickets sold through booking sites are almost always more restrictive in the terms and conditions than tickets bought through the airline, and the airline will not handle customer service issues that come up, but will instead refer you to the booking site.

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I guess Expedia could mark it up if they wanted to. Orbitz (which is now an Expedia affiliate) back in the day would add $5-6 to all their fares back, for example. And my dad’s old school travel agent adds a $15 service fee to each ticket she books. But the fares available through mainstream OTAs like Expedia and available directly from the airlines are usually exactly the same.

The only two exceptions I’ve encountered in recent years are:

  1. Some fares might only be available directly from the airline or through select travel agents. For example, I’ve had trouble finding United Basic Economy fares on Chase Travel (although some other airlines’ Basic Economy fares ARE available on Chase Travel).

  2. Once I found a weird “Main Plus” fare (that included free checked bags and extra legroom seats—for less than the regular Economy price!) through Google Flights that I actually bought on AA.com (after clicking through Google Flights) but that I couldn’t find by searching directly on AA.com. But that was a limitation of AA.com’s search tool and was a really weird fluke.

Absolutely! Airlines are constantly adjusting fares and they go both up and down. But on the whole they’re a little more likely to go up as they only go down when the airline adjusts its fares, while they can go up due to fare adjustments, but also due to inventory selling out (cheaper fares can sell out without the whole plane selling out) or advance purchase deadlines passing (you might have been looking at a fare with a 14 day advance purchase requirement, and now there are only 13 days before your flight). Maybe other reasons, too.

If you have a fare that allows changes without any penalties, it’s always a good idea to keep an eye on the fares even after you book, because if the fares go down you can usually rebook your ticket at the cheaper fare and keep the price difference as a credit you can use for your next flight. I’ve been doing that on Southwest for years, but post-2020 a lot of other airlines now allow it on their non-“basic” fares.

I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that. It might be the case if you buy from some obscure airline “consolidator” (if those even exist any more) or if you buy your plane ticket as part of a travel package. But if you just buy a standalone plane ticket for a regularly scheduled flight through Expedia, it’s usually going to be subject to the exact same rules (changes, cancellations, refunds, seating, baggage, etc.), as the same fare purchased directly from the airline.

This is accurate. If you buy through a travel agency, you have to go to the travel agency for customer service issues. It’s a good reason to book directly with the airlines (unless you work with a very full service travel agency, which usually costs something extra).

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What I am saying is that Expedia and other booking sites get wholesale prices that are not available to general consumers. You can buy a ticket for a thousand dollars through an airline directly or you can buy it from Expedia for the same thousand dollars, but that does not mean that Expedia just passes on your thousand dollars to the airline. They are taking a cut in addition to the fees that they charge you through arbitrage between the wholesale ticket cost and the MSRP as set by the airlines. It’s probably just a few extra percent, but that part can be adjusted by Expedia.

You know when you buy tickets and they have an E or a Z or a Y listed as something like “ticket class” or “fare conditions” or something? That has extra meaning in terms of the value of the ticket

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Thanks for yet again proving the immutability of Betteridge’s Law of Headlines.

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I don’t think Expedia gets wholesale prices. They get a commission just like any other travel agent. And like other travel agents they are prohibited from kicking the commission back to consumers (except indirectly through rewards programs and the like). But the fares are the same.

I’m very familiar with the different fare classes. Some represent different classes of service (first, economy, etc) or refund-ability or mileage earning. Others are reward classes (for mileage redemptions).

There can also be dozens of different fares with different rules (advance purchase, connections, roundtrips, etc.) in any given fare class at any given time, and there are multiple fare classes with identical benefits on most airlines (eg on Delta there’s no practical difference between a U T X or V class ticket). You only see the cheapest one that fits the parameters of your search. And airlines control inventory by limiting the seats available for purchase in any one fare class on any one flight. If their predictive systems anticipate that a specific flight will be in high demand they will zero out inventory in the cheaper fare classes (even if they haven’t sold a single ticket on that flight) so you only see the more expensive fares for that flight.

below is an example of the fare rules for a Delta V class ticket, specially a VAVNA0BQ fare. There are lots of other V fares (and fares in other “classes” with the same benefits) available for this route but for the date I tried this was the cheapest regular Economy fare. If I tried to book less than 21 days out, this specific fare wouldn’t be available. If Delta zeroes out the V bucket on the flight I searched (either because it’s selling well or they think it will be in demand) then I might have to buy a slightly more expensive X or T or U fare (all of which have the same practical benefits for me as a passenger—they just get more expensive as I move up the ladder).

[quote] Delta (DL) VAVNA0BQ NYC to SRQ

General notes
ECONOMY OW UNBUNDLED FARES E
APPLIES FOR ONE WAY FARES
FOR ADULT
RESERVATION BOOKING DESIGNATOR
EXCEPTIONS
CHART 1
FARE LOCATIONS/FLIGHTS MKTG RBD NOTE
IDENTIFIER CXR

ANY FARE EACH FLT SEGMENT. DL V E R/DA
ANY FARE EACH FLT SEGMENT. DL E NRBD
Category 4: Flight restrictions
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
Category 5: Advanced reservation/ticketing restrictions
RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS ARE REQUIRED AT LEAST 21 DAYS
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP.
TICKETING FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP MUST BE COMPLETED
WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS ARE MADE OR AT LEAST 21
DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE WHICHEVER IS EARLIER.
Category 8: Stopover restrictions
NO STOPOVERS PERMITTED.
Category 9: Transfer restrictions
2 TRANSFERS PERMITTED IN EACH DIRECTION
ONLINE ON THE PRIMARY CARRIER
FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SURFACE SECTORS NOT PERMITTED ON
THE FARE COMPONENT.
Category 10: Combinability
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
APPLICABLE ADD-ON CONSTRUCTION IS ADDRESSED IN
MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS - CATEGORY 23.
END-ON-END
END-ON-END COMBINATIONS PERMITTED WITH DL FARES.
VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED.
ADJACENT LINE OF FLIGHT FARE BREAK POINTS MUST BE
STOPOVERS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY ECONOMY OW UNBUNDLED/ECONOMY
RT UNBUNDLED-TYPE FARES.
OPEN JAWS/2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS/MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE
TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS WITH DL
FARES
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS.
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE COMPONENTS PERMITTED.
MILEAGE OF THE OPEN SEGMENT MUST BE EQUAL/LESS THAN
MILEAGE OF THE SHORTEST FLOWN FARE COMPONENT.
-TO FORM 2-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
-TO FORM MULTI-COMPONENT CIRCLE TRIPS
A MAXIMUM OF 2 FARE BREAK POINTS PERMITTED.
FARE BREAK POINTS MUST BE STOPOVERS.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY ECONOMY OW UNBUNDLED/ECONOMY
RT UNBUNDLED-TYPE FARES IN ANY RULE AND TARIFF.
NOTE - THE CITY PAIRS BELOW ARE CONSIDERED THE SAME POINT-
BWI-WAS FLL-MIA LAX-ONT LAX-SNA NYC-EWR OAK-SFO
OAK-SJC SFO-SJC LAX-BUR
Category 12: Surcharges
IF INFANT 0-1 WITHOUT A SEAT.
THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR TRAVEL PER FARE COMPONENT.
A SURCHARGE OF USD 0.35 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
AND - TO FLORIDA -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 13FEB 25
THROUGH 15FEB 25.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
AND - FROM FLORIDA -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FROM 22FEB 25
THROUGH 23FEB 25.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 21MAY 25.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 55.81 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 22MAY 25.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 55.81 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL ON 23MAY 25.
NOTE -
THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE
COMPONENT BASIS.
Category 14: Travel restrictions
VALID FOR TRAVEL COMMENCING ON EACH TRIP ON/AFTER
05NOV 24. TRAVEL ON THIS FARE COMPONENT MUST COMMENCE BY
MIDNIGHT ON 04MAY 25.
Category 15: Sales restrictions
TICKETS MAY NOT BE SOLD IN VENEZUELA/ZIMBABWE/ANGOLA/
GABON/CAMEROON/CHAD/CONGO (BRAZZAVILLE)/NIGERIA/MALAWI/
MOZAMBIQUE/RUSSIA (EAST OF THE URALS)/RUSSIA/PAKISTAN/
BENIN/BURKINA FASO/GUINEA-BISSAU/COTE D’IVOIRE/MALI/NIGER/
SENEGAL/TOGO/EGYPT.
TICKETS MAY ONLY BE SOLD IN AREA 1/AREA 2/AREA 3.
Category 16: Penalties
CANCELLATIONS
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL.
NOTE -
TRAVEL AGENT REDEMPTION - REFER TO DELTA
PROFESSIONAL FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
WAIVER CODE REQUIRED.
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF NO-SHOW.
NOTE -
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE AND HAS NO REMAINING
VALUE IN CASE OF NO-SHOW
CHANGES
ANY TIME
CHARGE USD 99.00/CAD 99.00 FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION.
CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY.
NOTE -
TRAVEL AGENT REDEMPTION - REFER TO DELTA
PROFESSIONAL FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
WAIVER CODE REQUIRED.
Category 18: Endorsements
THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED -
NONREF - AND - NOPRE RSVDSEAT - IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX.
Category 19: Discounts
1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN100.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT
AT THIS RULE BY ADULT
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-14 - CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN UNDER 5 YEARS OF AGE WILL
NOT BE ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE UNDER ANY CONDITIONS.
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN AGES 5 THROUGH 7 MAY TRAVEL
ON NON-STOP FLIGHTS ONLY AND MAY NOT CONNECT TO
OTHER AIRLINES.
CHILDREN AGES 8 THROUGH 14 MAY TRAVEL
UNACCOMPANIED ON DELTAS NON-STOP OR CONNECTING
FLIGHTS - BUT MAY NOT CONNECT TO OTHER AIRLINES
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DELTA CONNECTION/KLM AND
AIR FRANCE.
Category 31: Voluntary changes
THE PROVISIONS BELOW APPLY ONLY AS FOLLOWS -
SALE IS RESTRICTED TO SPECIFIC AGENTS.
NOTE -
CHANGES NOT PERMITTED.
USD 99.00/CAD 99.00 FOR CANCEL ONLY.
TRAVEL AGENT REDEMPTION - REFER TO DELTA
PROFESSIONAL FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
WAIVER CODE REQUIRED.
IN THE EVENT OF CHANGES TO TICKETED FLIGHTS
BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF DL INTERNATIONAL FARES
CHARGE USD 99.00/CAD 99.00 FOR REISSUE OR HIGHEST FEE
OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS -/CATEGORY 19 DISCOUNTS
APPLY - NO FEE FOR INFANTS W/O SEAT AND
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. DL FARES ARE USED
2. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE
OF PRICING UNIT
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE SUBTRACT RESIDUAL FROM
THE PENALTY THEN ADD-COLLECT/REFUND - REFUND VIA EMD
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
OR -
AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY - APPLIES WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CERTAIN DOMESTIC REISSUE PROVISIONS MAY BE OVERRIDDEN BY
THOSE OF DL INTERNATIONAL FARES
CHARGE USD 99.00/CAD 99.00 FOR REISSUE OR HIGHEST FEE
OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS -/CATEGORY 19 DISCOUNTS
APPLY - NO FEE FOR INFANTS W/O SEAT AND
REPRICE
A. FULLY FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USE CURRENTLY TKTD FARE
B. ALL OTHERS USE FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FLIGHT COUPON/FARE BREAKS
2. WHEN NO INTL COUPONS REMAIN - ALL NEW TRAVEL MUST
BE DOMESTIC
3. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
4. DL FARES ARE USED
5. ALL RULE AND BOOKING CODE PROVISIONS ARE MET
6. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM NEW TKT ISSUE DATE IF
CURRENT FARES/FROM PREVIOUS TKT ISSUE DATE IF
HISTORICAL FARES TO DEPARTURE OF PRICING UNIT
OR -
REPRICE USING FARES IN EFFECT TODAY
PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET-
1. NO CHANGE TO 1ST FARE COMPONENT
2. FULLY FLOWN FARE NOT REPRICED TO FURTHER POINT
3. DL FARES ARE USED
4. ADV RES IS MEASURED FROM REISSUE DATE TO DEPARTURE
OF PRICING UNIT
WHEN CHANGE RESULTS IN LOWER FARE SUBTRACT RESIDUAL FROM
THE PENALTY THEN ADD-COLLECT/REFUND - REFUND VIA EMD
ENDORSEMENT BOX- HIGHER NON-REF AMT AND NEW ENDORSEMENTS.
OTHERWISE
ANYTIME WITHIN TKT VALIDITY
CHANGES EXCEPT RBD NOT PERMITTED TO THE FARE COMPONENT-
CHARGE HIGHEST FEE OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS.
Category 33: Voluntary cancellations
FARE IS FULLY REFUNDABLE WITHIN 1 DAY AFTER RESERVATIONS
AND TICKETING DATE. REFUND MUST BE REQUESTED BEFORE
DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY.
NO CHARGE. IF ALL PENALTIES IN PRICING UNIT ARE PER
PRICING UNIT COLLECT HIGHEST. IF MIX OF PER FARE
COMPONENT AND PER PRICING UNIT CALCULATE EACH AS PER
PRICING UNIT AND COLLECT HIGHEST.
REFUND REQUEST MUST BE LESS THAN ONE YEAR AFTER TRAVEL
COMMENCEMENT DATE IF PARTIALLY USED OR ONE YEAR AFTER
TICKET ISSUANCE IF TICKET UNUSED. FORM OF REFUND -
ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT. ONLY VALIDATING CARRIER MAY
REFUND TICKET.
OR -
FARE AND TAXES ARE NONREFUNDABLE. IF MIX OF PER FARE
COMPONENT AND PER PRICING UNIT CALCULATE EACH AS PER
PRICING UNIT AND COLLECT HIGHEST.
REFUND REQUEST MUST BE LESS THAN ONE YEAR AFTER TRAVEL
COMMENCEMENT DATE IF PARTIALLY USED OR ONE YEAR AFTER
TICKET ISSUANCE IF TICKET UNUSED.
Category 50: Application
BASIC ECONOMY FARES
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
SEATS ARE LIMITED
OTHER CONDITIONS
NON REFUNDABLE FARES
CHANGES ALLOWED FOR TICKETING ON/BEFORE 31MAY20
NO PRERESERVED SEATS
UNUSED COUPONS HAVE NO RESIDUAL VALUE[/quote]

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Are you absolutely sure of that?

This is a really important part of value for people who do mileage seriously, and airlines (at least here in Japan) specifically market tickets this way, giving you the choice to buy tickets based on the mileage benefits as part of the booking process. You would think that the cheaper ticket gives you fewer miles, but if the flight is sold by JAL and operated by Cathay, that is not always the case.

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I got very badly stung by this some years ago when my mother asked me to buy tickets for her and me to fly Heathrow to Miami for my brother’s wedding, which was in South Beach.

I was busy at work and fucked around not doing it until the last minute. Overnight, the price went up by £1,000 (they were 1st class tickets) which hurt like hell but I had to suck it up.

At any rate, the flights were great and the wedding was a success so in the end it was a good experience which taught me not to screw around booking things, just to make a decision and press the button.

Also never to visit the US again. The immigration officials were total arseholes.

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