Edward Snowden licks Elon Musk's boots

Or… hear me out… maybe someone who likes to shout the N-word (and is white) is just someone who has violent and racist tendencies.

Blindly supporting ANYONE no matter what they do is a bad idea. People are complicated, and they can do good shit and also be assholes with bad politics. We can recognize his leaks were positive and call him out when he supports nazis.

That shouldn’t give anyone a pass for supporting nazis, though. The nazis are not going to give us liberty and freedoms if we just hand over power to them.

Jinx @Brainspore

Another person who hides his affinity for white supremacy behind a supposedly neutral ideology.

They sure as shit don’t care about women’s rights… they’ll happily ensure we don’t have bodily autonomy and are under their fucking thumbs.


Is someone who allowed US espionage secrets to fall into Russian hands heroic? Even if the files have not been completely decrypted, what guarantee is there that a new development in quantum computing or AI or good old fashioned torture is not going to get them decrypted next week?
Clearly US policy has regrettable moral lapses, but to allow strategic advantage to a murderous amoral despot doesn’t remedy US policy and may make the world worse.


Pretty much just because Putin is “against” the US, doesn’t make him the good guy… people on the left sometimes seem to have a problem wrapping their heads about that notion. Same with hero-worship of Julian Assange, who, yes, leaked some important shit, but he also decided that having a thin-skinned narcissist who aligned with dictator chic was far better than having a centrist who just happened to be a woman in the presidency.


Is BB a monolith? Must all the front page contributors have the same opinion?

As @Brainspore and @Mindysan33, and probably others by the time I post this have said: one can admire the action of a person in one instance and condemn other actions they take that are repugnant. Yeah, Snowden did something important, gave the U and world information we absolutely needed to know, and it ruined his life. Doesn’t absolve him from being called on his bullshit for his entire life.

His actions as a whistleblower have no relevance on what he is saying about Musk, except that his admirable whistleblowing means his voice is now amplified.

I remember when all the media were dissecting Snowden’s life. Some definite US Libertarian writings and opinions from him. Very confident in his own superiority too. I wouldn’t be surprised if he shares many of Elon’s more repugnant opinions and identifies with him quite strongly. But we probably can’t tell now, given where he is. Coercion is possible. Still worth calling these opinions bullshit.

Slightly off topic: Not sure he actually understood how badly the whistleblowing would work out for him personally. He seemed to think public outrage would result in him being welcomed home or being able to stay in Ecuador. Exile in Ecuador is very different from exile under the thumb of Putin.


You mean individuals aren’t all the SAME!!! /s

Oh My God Omg GIF


I’m not going to fault Snowden too much because of the difficult situation he’s living in. He thought the public had a right to know about the secret and illegal spying that the government was doing against its own citizens and the rest of the world, and the only way he could escape lifetime imprisonment was fleeing to Russia. Now that he’s stuck there, he has to keep Putin and his regime from getting pissed off at him. Putin doesn’t even have to bother with a sham trial and imprisonment or the other option of introducing him to a local window or stairwell. All he has to do is deport him to the US.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to pay attention to Snowden either. I respect what he did, but I have no reason to trust anything else he’s said since then.


I never said they weren’t. Boy, were they ever. But it only seemed to come out when they got on voice chat with their buddies while gaming.

Seemed kind of weird they were calling other white guys the n-word tho.

Yes, because in many places, being a racist asshole is frowned upon (less so now in the age of Trump, but, still generally true for many places in the west). When people feel the need to hide their odious views it just tells you that they know better.

Not really, because lots of white dudes consume Black culture, and since they’re used to EVERYTHING being for THEM, they feel ownership over it and can reproduce aspects of that culture when they want to.


Using the B-word or the C-word is still a misogynist insult even when it is directed at another man.


Kenan Thompson Reaction GIF by Saturday Night Live


As I like to say, “There’s a difference between doing something heroic and being a hero.”

Sometimes, total assholes do great things. And sometimes, people who did great things turn into total assholes.


I’m personally largely for Snowden’s actions re: revealing the NSA surveillance program. The way that all occurred had me initially have a fair amount of respect for him.

Since that time, I’m soured on Snowden because of his constant and increasing de facto support of Putin. And the readiness with which Snowden has supported Putin makes me increasingly skeptical of Snowden’s original public story.

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Well, I don’t think he intended to get stuck in Russia, that’s where he was when his passport was cancelled. I have no experience of living in a repressive dictatorship, so I’m not going to judge people who have no choice about it.

I haven’t heard of him expressing support for Putin. Has he?

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I’m suspecting that Snowden actually selected Russia as a place to head to, which would be out of the reach of US authorities. I also recalling him pooh-poohing the idea that Putin’s Russia was a dangerous dictatorship, as US propaganda. But sure, he might have ended up in Russia and then made the best of it.

But I consider the way Snowden currently soft-peddles Putin’s dictatorship, as de facto support. This includes the way Snowden appears to have used his fame to lob televised softballs to Putin re: his regime’s surveillance state. In effect giving Putin a chance to refute the notion that he’s a dictator.

Now, this sort of performance may be required of Snowden. But if so, that also undermines Snowden’s credibility as someone who fully believes in “Live Free or Die” principles. And most to the point, pretty much the credibility of anything he says after moving to Russia.

And, if Snowden had planned moving to Russia earlier, even the possible integrity of his original actions.

So in essence: he once did the world a solid, and is now doing the world a disservice.


I think he was politically naive, and expected that once public documents of secrets were published, it would be recognized that he had done a service to the nation, and he would be lauded. So I don’t think he initially intended to end up in Russia.

That said, as an asset with a treasure trove of US top secret documents, some of which have been decrypted, to allow that to potentially fall into Russian hands is unforgivable. I fail to see that as other than highly useful to Putin, whatever his intentions.
He has sworn allegiance to Russia. He is happy to voice displeasure about topics such as Biden’s approach to cryptocurrency, but is suddenly shy when it comes about talking about Russian governmental overreach. Yes he is wary because of strict government repression, so maybe don’t help out Putin, the architect of strict government repression.


It could also just be motivated reasoning. Humans feel genuine stress and pain from cognitive dissonance. You’re known for making this big sacrifice on behalf of American citizens but immediately took shelter with her political enemies? The ones who want to do more and worse here and elsewhere?

Over time, your mind will find ways to reconcile choices and values. It’s possible he was coerced. It’s possible this is who he always was. The only person who can know for sure is Snowden himself. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. He is no longer a citizen of this country and its fate is none of his concern. I give it as much weight as I would any random person walking down the street in Paris or Shanghai.

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I have to disagree with you on that point. What happens in America is the whole planet’s concern. Only American citizens get to vote, but the results of that vote affect everyone anyway.


That’s a fair point and I figured people would fixate on it to the exclusion of what I felt was my more important one, but oh well. I shouldn’t have included it in my comment.

Of course it matters, and if democracy fails here, the consequences will be terrible in many places. Not just for Americans. I feel like I’m just stating what should be obvious to make my own position here clear.

I’m not a nativist. I care about our country’s foreign policy. My real point is that however Snowden arrived at his current political position, the result is the same. We can speculate, but we need to take his statements on their merits and not try to read between the lines.


Did he actually renounce his US citizenship? Becoming a Russian citizen does not preclude him from maintaining US citizenship, and renunciation is a whole process.


Good point. I thought he did, but I guess not. The State Department says his status hasn’t changed.