No, I didn’t. I never said that you did something wrong, but that if @peregrinus_bis feels someone did something wrong he can flag.
I feel as if you’re attacking me, since I never said that you (or grim did anything wrong), merely that the creator of the thread can flag people who he feels go off topic. I’m not sure how you interpreted it as attacking you.
What precisely do you mean by that?
I mean nobody is attacking you. But you say I am. Nope. Just not in agreement.
Lay down with dogs and you get fleas is the origin of the term
FLEAS are, in the parlance:
Fleas: They’re the bad behavior patterns and habits “picked up” from living with a person (generally a parent, sibling, significant other) who had total and unhealthy control over us. Fleas are the crazy making, and unhealthy ways of coping and perceiving the world-type behaviors that the victim develops in order to survive their home environment. Many view these behavior traits as unlearnable.
I think they’re unlearnable.
Calling someone out by name for their behavior, as you have done, is not you being attacked. But does one expect an attack so much so that they are overprepared for it, and not prepared at all for a discussion? That’s an actual question, not a rhetorical attack.
many people expect to be attacked for being assertive. But a counter assertion is not an attack. Any more than your assertion is.
And when people say they’re trying to make others uncomfortable… fleas they start jumpin’
We’re diagnosing each other now? Let’s don’t. I think that when you, @anon61221983 or anyone says we feel attacked that’s enough reason to leave each other alone.
How is it going, by the way. I’m sure almost everyone would rather be back on topic, and not squabbling or shutting down contrary opinions in the name of some higher goal that only some in the conversation share.
It’s weird. But it’s time - some action soon. Skirmish, but this is it. Not looking forward. But really got to get through it.
Tx for asking!
This is helpful:
Nope. I was saying that I saw something that often comes up in a conversation with a sociopath - reflexive habits of assumption and false attribution. I asked. That’s not diagnosing.
Sure, but when someone tells you they feel attaacked because of what they assumed and added to your comment… but not anything you actually said?
Maybe that’s a gnarly aggressive move, disguised in the language of assertion. Assertion is stating your own internal state. If you assert someone elses internal state, assume the worst and accuse them of bad faith before you even ask for clarification… that’s aggression.
And a Flea. But thats no diagnosis. Not even among professionals. Is jargon for counterproductive communication habits.
For me to diagnose anyone I’d have to be trained. I’m merely experienced and observant and logical. Usually pretty rational too, but less so when someone aggressively calls me out for their own mis-take of what they read.
Mindysan is awesome and brilliant, and misread me, and said so, to me. I hope she knows there are no hard feelings for a mistake. My pointing it out forcefully and assertively here and in PM was no mistake.
Fair enough.
I think we all want to keep each other safe and to feel understood.
That’s easier said than done.
Have you taken the Empathy Quotient Test?
I do like people, y’know. On the whole. Or at least in principle.
(I could probably have answered differently on a few of those questions, but I probably wouldn’t have achieved more than 10 in any case).
On that point, to what extent is empathy necessary in every person as a prerequisite for a good society or good relationships? My folks seem to like me well enough and I don’t think the most empathetic people are necessarily the best at maintaining healthy relationships. I do try to foster empathy in myself and I can see its value, but at times it’s a little like developing AI in my case.
LOL - I got a 62
Hmm. 19.
It’s funny you should ask that, because the question that jumped out at me was the one about teaching good manners being the most important thing a parent can do for a child.
That seemed like an extreme statement (THE most important?), but I agree with the general sentiment that learning how to act politely and respectfully in any setting is very important. You may not be able to read what the other person is thinking, but if you’re courteous then you’re not causing any harm.
I guess what I’m saying is that I agree with you, that empathy itself isn’t universally necessary for all in order to have a good society or personal relationship. But at least someone in the relationship/society had better be empathetic, to make up for those of us who don’t read people well.
The way I see it, I approach others by starting from the assumption that they are more or less like me. That at least brings you to the golden rule. Then there are differences, for example that there are things that I don’t mind discussing about myself, but that others find rude or offensive. People come from different perspectives, so you have to factor in their backgrounds too. I do have a strong sense of ethics and justice, and people do matter to me, so just because I don’t feel that I can read people doesn’t mean that I’m in evil mode. Empathy isn’t the same as sympathy or kindness.
Looking back, I didn’t really call people friends when I was growing up - there were people I enjoyed doing things with and wanted to be friends with, but I didn’t feel qualified to make any judgement about how they felt about me. I wasn’t sure how other people were so casual about this title either, or how they ended up being friends. When I got married, I set a few ground rules, like: if you smile and say you’re happy, I will assume that you’re happy, or at least that you want me to think that you’re happy. If you want me to figure out what’s wrong, you’ll be waiting for a long time, because I’m not very good at that and refuse to even try. If you tell me what you’re thinking and I repeat it back to you, then I’ve got it. If you want a present or something else, tell me what you want. Actually, I think these would be good rules for most couples.
One interesting story about awakening a sensation of empathy in an autistic person through TMS (TL;DR: his marriage broke apart, probably because he could finally sense his wife’s depression):
I actually had a similar experience on my ADHD medicine, which felt really odd and not very welcome (I’m not the only one who has had that effect with the same medicine either). The truth is, nobody can see inside another person’s head and many conclusions I reached were wrong, particularly as I wasn’t used to these cues. Other times I recognised cues that I’d been missing or misunderstanding for a long time, and the idea of missing them before was very upsetting.
I got 63!
Ha! Go team sarcastic empaths!
I got 40, I’m having trouble figuring out if I should care which team I’m on 
Aloof snarkers unite!
Edit: Or not, it’s cool.
To further complicate matters, there are different types of empathy. Cognitive empathy is associated with the theory of mind and the ability to understand another’s perspective or mental state. Affective or emotional empathy is the capacity to respond with an appropriate emotion to another’s mental states. Everyone has a balance between the two, but psychopathy and narcissism have been associated with impairments in affective but not cognitive empathy, bipolar disorder and borderline traits have been associated with deficits in cognitive but not affective empathy, and autism spectrum disorders have been associated with various combinations, but mainly with cognitive empathy. Schizophrenia can also be associated with both.
Oh. 21. Thought I’d be higher (though not that much higher).[quote=“jsroberts, post:137, topic:75321”]
I do try to foster empathy in myself and I can see its value, but at times it’s a little like developing AI in my case.
[/quote]
Exactly.
I got 20. Not particularly surprised, given that I seem to empathize with fictional characters and animals better than with actual people.
I always find it interesting to discuss the storyline of a TV series with my wife. She’ll often talk about what a character is thinking and what they’ll do next, I generally talk about what the director is thinking and what kind of plot device I think will come next. I like fiction, but I don’t really feel like I’m getting into the characters’ heads at all. I don’t know if it’s related at all, but if I ever use a hand puppet with my (3 y.o.) daughter, she almost always tries to be the puppet master and basically never relates to the puppet as a person. I also like animals, and sometimes think it’s helpful to think of and treat people as animals - not in a patronising way, just not assuming that we are essentially logical in our thoughts and actions and approaching people on a more basic level.
One interesting comment that some autistic people have said about sociopaths is that they are occasionally the only ones who aren’t taken in because a lot of the deception is with the body language - they only hear the words and recognise that the person is not honest.
I really don’t know how accurate my score is though - like the guy in the article, I disagree that I have no sense of empathy, depending on how you define it. It’s not that I don’t like, care about or get on with people (any more than a deaf person is uncommunicative), but I find it tiring and confusing to be around them all the time and there is a lot of communication that I don’t understand. I like living in foreign countries because people don’t expect you to know their culture, and they’re often more explicit about explaining what they want from an interaction. Where they aren’t, there are guide books to help you figure it out. If you’re speaking in a language that isn’t your mother tongue, people are often even more ready to correct you and they expect you to make mistakes. When they laugh at me for getting things wrong, I laugh with them. That’s more difficult when you’re in your own country.
