There was a great talk where Alan Watts explained in some detail that the most harmful lie people are told is that they are obliged to go on living. That people suppose quite irrationally that there is something unnatural or wrong about dying. And how this makes so many people morbid as thoughts of “that which cannot be” eat away at people’s psyches, no matter the variety or depth of distraction sought from them.
Lemme know when it becomes an accepted treatment for sinusitis…
I hear you there. I’ve seriously considered the following to end the pain of my migraines:
Speaking as someone who’s been that low a few times…
I think that society has an obligation to try to help someone. We need to offer help, we need to make the effort to reach out and to convince them things will be okay.
Most of the time, people will take the help when they need it. Most of the time, people get better. Most of the time, people want help.
But we don’t have the right to force them to get better. We don’t have a right to make people live against their will. And- And this really pisses me off- We don’t get to tell people that the unbearable suffering they go through every minute of the day is less important that the brief period of mourning we’d go through without them, and then call them selfish for disagreeing. Their life to do with as they please.
But we still need to try. We just need to know when to quit.
Trepanation is a hole other kind of party!
I didn’t know that intentional suicide via drill-press also counted as trepanation. I just wanted the pain to end. Which it would have done. Permanently.
I’m glad I didn’t go through with it. But I spent a lot of time staring at the high velocity carbide bit spinning in place, after tying 90 pounds of barbell plates to the positioning handle.
The Belgians believe that this is paternalistic; the self determination of the individual, even though he or she may be “delusional” is paramount.
As An alternative:
Ketamine. Ibogaine. Ayahuasca.
If you’re prepared to kill yourself, why not?
Ultimately, I do believe it’s a persons right to decide when to die. You have ultimate agency over yourself. I’m pointing out (alternative) options.
That seems like a gratuitously puke-y way to kill oneself. Die young and leave a lot of vomit on your pretty corpse?
I mean as an alternative to suicide. (edited original comment, apologies for not being absolutely clear)
Ketamine will immediately arrest the active, unshakeable suicidal thoughts and is even used in western clinical settings for such.
Ibogaine is a 24 hour, harrowing, deeply introspective experience wherein one catalogues the contents of one’s life, best applied with psychotherapeutic guidance in the form of a qualified Doctor.
Ayahuasca is commonly acknowledged as a way of allowing deeply avoided self-directives to become unstuck and present new oppurtuinities for the neurology from deep within the psyche through a prolonged (usually 24-48 hour) DMT trip.
Probably also a yearly or bi-yearly check in with some psylocin would be beneficial within the context of a therapeutic setting.
People may not be adventurous, but when it comes to forever removing any possibility of change, why not step out into the unknown in life before stepping into the unknown void?
I think @miasm mean this
That’s a start, yeah. Didn’t Jon Snow even host a Channel 4 debate about Ketamine’s positive effects?
Although, as I understand it (and from personal experience) Ketamine would really only be useful in emergency situations as protracted exposure isn’t a good idea.
I see from the article they were experimenting with more doses spaced out over several months, and that’s why I suggested the Ibogaine and/or Ayahuasca for a more permanent effect.
Ketamine is… weird. Helpful, no doubt, but not conducive to discovering new directions for one to explore, for ushering you away from the worn and trampled habitual pathways that lead to darkness. It’s more of a reset switch. IMO.
I’m gonna try to remember that phrase…
What did you guys think of the humanists versus Roman Catholic theme of the article?
While supporting the choice of euthanasia for terminal and chronic illnesses with no chance of recovery, I am concerned about people being coerced into it.
In the UK, Ian Duncan Smith and the DWP are suspected to have a body count in the tens of thousands (We’ll finally find out what the actual number is now that David Cameron has said the figures will be released). Could we see ATOS, Maximus or Capita having Dignitas leaflets available to people doing Work Capability Assessments? I hope not, but my fears and the previous actions of the Conservatives make me worry about it.
Personally, my friends have been asked by me to keep me alive, no matter what I want at that particular moment. My suicidalness passes with support and time.
A useful precaution. Some may think that offends dignity, but so be it.
It’s a difficult thing- when you’re low, it’s likely not the best time to be making major decisions of any sort, really. So if it’s a matter of a rational mind making a choice, I suppose- but being low doesn’t always correlate to rational.
So the issue becomes, how do you get someone in that condition to a place where they’re able to make an informed choice?
(I have no answers, mind you)
So the issue becomes, how do you get someone in that condition to a place where they’re able to make an informed choice?
the position of Distelmans seems to be that getting to that place is difficult, and not even close to guaranteed, and therefore cruel.
The article gives the impression that logic of human dignity dictates this result. Maybe dignity is a failed concept.
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