And I’m going to hear a derpy “But Cubism!” every time someone mentions Picasso from now on, I just know it, lol.
For a start my mention of “Get Out” or “Fleabag” SERVES THE EXACT OPPOSITE PURPOSE.
Examples of MAIN STREAM works of art that EVERYBODY KNOWS AND LOVES and I LOVE EM TOO!
They are examples of things trying to do what Nanette tried to do, only they were successful at it.
Seriously friends, this has been a twilight zone experience.
We “snowflakes” - i.e. people who give a shit about the important stuff - get accused of being triggered and biting the heads off people who try to have a different conversation. I’ve been made to feel like some kinda troll with the small difference that I didn’t want to “trigger” anyone, make anyone uncomfortable and certainly didn’t enjoy the vitriol I got back.
I watched the play again by the way, in light of our “conversation” here.
It’s so bland and uninsightful. There is SO much better feminist comedy out there. Or even gender conscious content.
Please leave me alone. Feel free to hurl abuse but not in a place where I get “notified”. Start a new thread if you must.
It’s pretty clear that she was successful at it, for many of us. If she wasn’t for YOU, that’s well and good. But clearly, she’s touched many of us here. We don’t have a problem with you not feeling moved by it. We have a problem that her not moving you somehow equates to her success as a comedian.
Do you think you get to determine what is good feminist comedy for the rest of us? Because you’re implying that your personal taste in comedy equates to what’s good and feminist. Maybe that’s not what you implied, but that’s what many of us are actually getting from your comments. Perhaps take a step back and look at how you’re communicating what you’re meaning is here. Maybe you’re not being clear in your comments.
Nah, the meaning is plenty clear enough to me when I hear yet another guy who just can’t see the irony of his efforts to mansplain “what good feminism is.”
You are labeling a rape and abuse victim telling her story, “bland and uninsightful.” Do you truly not understand why your contribution to this conversation is attracting some negative feedback? Is your issue here really that you didn’t get to laugh enough?
Oh ffs then talk about what you like and don’t like specifically. You came on here saying “I don’t like it” and literally only asking to hear from people who agree with you, you failed to mention one specific thing in all of your replies, you list things you like as if others don’t know them without expressing how or why you think one functions better than the other, you snark, get defensive, accuse everyone of bad faith, but can only articulate that it failed to please you specifically, getting more agitated when anyone probes you on why or how… so you can have the conversation you want to have when you learn how to have it. Since I’m a liar, you can assume that means I like you and I’d love to hear something besides a personal defense or an accusation come from your fingers right? Or am I being honest now? Certainly only you can decide!
True. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but it’s not uncommon for men to think they understand feminism better than women…
If you click on the little blue circle inside of a grey rectangle in the lower right of the window which looks like the following
and click on the “muted” option that shows up the notifications will stop.
If your goal is to get people to like you, then I think you’re doing it wrong
Can folks stop replying to this one person who’s hijacked the thread please?
For awhile it was looking like giving that snowflake enough heat would make it dissipate.
But then it’s true, that tactic rarely works with entitled white dudes.
Sure, let’s do that.
So I’ve had a couple days to think about it and it definitely has stuck with me. Also, had a friend tell me yesterday “There’s this thing on Netflix that you have to see!”
For context, I’m queer and very visibly so. Specifically, I’m a trans woman in my 30’s almost nine months into medical transitioning. Having been in hard denial about my gender for 15 years before I finally came out to myself, I did my best to do the straight cis male thing (wife, kids, mortgage, etc). I’m extremely fortunate in a number of ways. Coming out to my wife and starting transitioning has revealed the fact that she is fairly enthusiastically bi. I live in a fairly accepting area and apparently chose my friends well. So far, of the important people in my life, the vast majority have been affirming or at the least reasonably accepting with the exception of my parents (and like Gadsby, I still need to tell my grandparents).
Here are some of the reasons why Nanette really resonated with me:
Most importantly, the emphasis on telling one’s story honestly and completely. In my experience, coming out is hard. The environment is thankfully so different from how it was 20 years ago when I knew more or less what was wrong, but had no representation to see myself, and no available resources to move forward. And yet, coming out as trans is still extremely fraught, because people have a lot of opinions, and few facts. You gotta come out, and then you gotta educate. Or at least, I feel like I do, because I have a lot of privilege and want to do what I can to forward the transgenda (by which I mean, make things just a tiny bit easier for the teenage trans girl at our church when she’s ready to come out).
The bit about internalized shame. That was the part where I just started weeping. My parents have expressed sadness that I’ve had to deal with dysphoria, but I don’t think they understand that my conservative Christian upbringing caused me to hate myself. The reason a lot of cishet people don’t understand LGBT pride is because they don’t understand the shame that was forced on us.
“I identify as tired.” I too am one of the quiet gays. And yet, being queer can be hard work. Right now, I can either dress to minimize things and I look like a kinda feminine dude wearing a baggy shirt and I feel really uncomfortable, or I can dress the way I want and wonder what people are thinking and how they’re going to treat me. That’s the visible part, which is honestly mostly in my head, as I do live in an accepting area and have not actually been harassed, but I’ve heard enough stories that I still feel like I need to stay alert and ready. The less visible part is working through everything that transitioning means for my family, trying to figure out better ways of explaining stuff to people (because LGBT inclusion is a very hot-button topic in our denomination at the moment) and just working through all the accumulated crap of a lifetime of hiding and squashing my identity.
The whole bit about how jokes relate to growth. I think humor is often a vital part of coping with stuff (and there’s the potential for a lot of very dark humor that happens when trans people start talking), but the way that she had to sanitize and repackage her own pain for public consumption was just heart-wrenching.
The cohesiveness of the entire set. I don’t watch a lot of standup, but I was both surprised and impressed at the multiple layers and how things kind of wrapped back around. I need to watch it again to really understand how she was doing stuff because I was too caught up the first time in what she was doing.
“My mum used to call me madam when I was in trouble…for opening a brothel.” “Pull your socks up!” “But cubism!” Some bits stuck with me because they were funny, some because they were funny and meant something more.
Is that enough content to make an actual discussion happen?
It is enough, assuming someone who takes issue with it is actually willing to listen to and acknowledge your points.
I don’t have anything to add to your excellent observations other than to thank you for bringing your own perspective into the discussion and express my hope that your transition continues to go smoothly (and that your parents come around).
Nothing. Say nothing.
You didn’t think it was funny and or clever? that is not the same as “good enough” which is it’s own problematic black hole. Good enough for what? For you to care? If you already care then what does it matter it’s “good enough” for that?
Good enough to make a difference? From my own and others reaction, it doesn’t seem that way.
You didn’t think it was funny, you didn’t think it was good. You made that point already, now you’re just trying to prove some objective truth value to your subjective experience.
Exactly. I realized afterward that I need to watch it again to really appreciate how well-structured, and well-acted, this magnificent piece of theater is.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. No piece of theater (or any other art) is going to connect well with everyone, and you helped to demonstrate how much Nanette means at a very personal level, for a lot of people who don’t get to see their experience represented nearly often enough, let alone well.
This is why I couldn’t give a shit that one dude wasn’t impressed. Watching it myself, I certainly felt like the piece was good enough to achieve its aims, and it’s evidently good enough to have made a shitload of folks tell others to see it, so it’s good enough to start a very big conversation, thus good enough to actually make a dent in some of the problems it references.
I had the very strong sense that represented here was an authentic experience that would resonate with a great many people, who were not used to feeling represented and empathised with, and it would generate a rather profound and probably somewhat unexpected sense of relief. And furthermore, that would lead to almost everyone who’d seen the piece to either pushing for, or at least being more open to, greater representation of diversity.
And I was fucking glad.
Thank you for sharing your story.
I was so close to creating my own post on Nanette. I knew it would resonate with a lot of people here and I wanted to make sure they watched it. I’ve loved Hannah Gadsby for years and this special was so incredible to me. It made me laugh so many times and then punched me in the gut. So many parts are entrenched in my mind. The way she set up the joke about the guy who threatened to beat her up and then when she circled back to it and told us the end of the story. I’ve never had a such a mix of anger, despair and hope all at once. I can’t be the only one who just wants to make Hannah a cup of tea and just sit with her.
I know I need to watch it again. I want to watch it again. But I don’t know if I am ready yet.
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