Yet, how many Muslims were railroaded in just this way and ended up in jail anyway. 
We need to take these militias seriously. They pose a real danger to the country. We are where we are today, because we treated events like OKC as âone-offsâ rather than part of an interconnected network of terrorism.
We absolutely need to take these militias seriously. But we also donât need to accept the FBI basically creating the entire militia and then arresting people who otherwise had no capability or desire to do something until they came in.
Iâd argue that by doing these sting operations on âeasy, unintelligent targetsâ theyâre actually missing the REAL militias that DO have the capability, planning, and what not to do awful things. Those are the militias they need to be infiltrating and doing sting operations on, and those are the ones getting missed by focusing on these podunk little gun clubs that arenât capable of doing anything.
Half the FBI informants in this case are now under charges or indictments themselves for lying to the FBI about whether or not the defendantâs statements were even indicating they wanted to kidnap the governor, so thereâs a question on whether or not there was even intent amongst the defendants. The FBI informants might have been lying.
The whole case was a badly done setup that fell apart. These people didnât have high profile attorneys. The slightest inspection of the evidence basically showed it to be a farce.
Well, right now we live in a world where it IS acceptable if itâs a Brown person, but not if itâs a white person.
These ARE real militias.
Yet the same rarely happens when the cases are aimed at Muslims.
While Iâm happy that the charges have been dropped, Iâm extremely upset that her medical privacy has been violated. She (and I refuse to use her name) has the right to anonymity.
Fucking misogynistic cops. 
again, to me at least that doesnât seem to me the case. my understanding is that they were already plotting and thatâs why the informant went to the fbi.
that sort of situation is very different than a young kid mouthing off who gets rewarded by attention and encouragement from adults he believes are in-group
i donât know the deep details here, but white men talking to their friends about kidnapping, assassination, and blowing stuff up results in the clan, the proud boys, three percenters, and coups
and i lend more credence to the possibility of these guys planned violence than i do to other situations of fbi stings. maybe especially because law enforcement tends to give these groups such leeway
Thatâs what the prosecution says happened, but its looking more like the FBI embedded the informant into the group before the plan became a thing.
They would have had to try very hard to find a right wing group in Michigan that wasnât already at least talking about those things. Did they just luck out and pick the only group that wasnât serious about it? Or did they find and reject dozens that were already actively working on it to focus on the one bunch of innocents who hadnât taken any steps to go after Whitmer?
You get that sheâd been getting death threats and rape threats since she was running for governor, right?
am i wrong to think that sounds somewhat plausible? 
based on what i know currently and a certain kind of close shaving razor it seems more likely a real plot than a fake one. however, i can at least imagine the desire to âfind someone, anyoneâ might lead to targeting groups least likely to anger friends in blue
Not everything is a Coen Bros or Wes Anderson movie.
The problem with the Michigan case is now we have this. They are going to claim any case against anyone on the right is a setup by the FBI.
And on a side note, sorry for the off topic, but I scrolled past the second tweet on the way to the first one.
We donât know how many groups they tried to embed these informants in before they found one that went through the whole process.
We just know the results, which are a bunch of the informants were basically embedded in these groups in order to radicalize them, that many of them are now facing their own charges for either stealing from the FBI or lying to the FBI, and that the case fell apart because of these issues.
I donât at all doubt that many groups are willing to do this. But wanting to commit a crime and being ABLE to commit a crime are two different things, and when the whole ability is manufactured by law enforcement themselves, itâs going to create situations like this where the end result is people decide itâs entrapment.
This method of sting operation being acceptable in law enforcement has some really shady outcomes, especially when mixed with all the talk about âLGBT / Trans groomersâ and âAiding trans kids being child abuse.â Imagine some future where a state bureau of investigation âsets upâ aid agencies wanting to help trans kids, and then uses that set up as a precursor to initiate child trafficking and child endangerment / child grooming busts. Or imagine Idaho setting up a âfake charityâ and busting planned parenthood supporters for donating to a terrorist organization.
Itâs really easy to look at people and say, âWell yeah, many of them wanted to do something to Gretchen Whitmerâ and go all the way to the conclusion that any sting operation that takes those people out are valid. But that same tactic has been used against mosques that were doing nothing wrong and literally had terrorists created by the FBI, and it will be used against anyone committing any thoughtcrime that donât have the means to actually commit the real crime associated with the thought crime. I imagine itâs going to be used against liberals as part of the new CRT laws, the child âgroomingâ laws, and the abortion laws coming about.
The real goal here should be to end sting operations that involve basically creating the whole operation. I know itâs harder for investigators to embed people and get informants when theyâre not creating the crime too, but itâll probably actually catch people who have the motive, means, and opportunity to actually do it instead of only catching people who have the motive and were given the means and opportunity by law enforcement.
Yet skin color, hair texture, and different features seem to be the criteria that racists try to set themselves apart from, Marge.
Thatâs the part I have a problem with. They already were. Guaranteed. Iâve turned my snark setting to zero here. I guarantee that in Michigan, any random right wing group that the FBI took notice of was already radicalized. What you are complaining about is that they gave them enough rope to hang themselves. Thatâs not entrapment. Thatâs the logical fucking conclusion once they got the right people/funding. And they donât have to look far for either.
This article seems to confirm thatâŚ
To @Lionâs point, they seemed utterly incompetent and were helped along by the informants, it seems. However, I donât know if them being incompetent should get them off the hook. And of course, plenty of cases of Muslims brought up on terrorism charges included the same kind of activities by the FBI. So, I agree that it IS a problem with law enforcement using entrapment⌠but as is the case with other crimes, white men get more leeway, whatever their actual crimes. White supremacist violence is the single biggest threat to the country. There is no question of that. In our history, white supremacists have tried to form their own country, over thrown local governments, and lynching thousands of people with impunity. We really need to start taking this stuff seriously, or weâre fucked. I can not stress enough how much of a threat this is to our freedom.
According to the article I linked to, they were already discussing wanting to kill cops and other acts of violence. The members expressed a desire to kidnap her, before any plans were made.
Again, if these were not white dudes, theyâd been found guilty.
Youâd think that would be stepping over a line, but not when conservatives do it.
We know that they are generally speaking far more concerned with infilitrating BLM and âantifaâ groups⌠We also know that there is a history there of violent actions against such groups INCLUDING at least one political assassination (Fred Hampton).
So if I shoplift and get caught because Iâm incompetent at it, then itâs not a crime? Thatâs not how that works.
They will keep doing it as long as it primarily entraps people of color or people on the left, which they consider the real threat. White men who are the ACTUAL threat to all of us will continue to get off, even when they are caught and prosecuted. They will keep the jails filled with Black and Brown men, because itâs to lucrative NOT to do soâŚ
they WANT to over throw the government! Thatâs what they are trying to do. Just because this particular group was bad at it doesnât mean we should just shrug it off. You are spot on that they ARE radicalized. But because they are white, itâs okay.
Like being transgender makes us unique, Marge?
Can you investigate an underground militia group without informants or embedding investigators?
Itâs not like they post their illegal plots in the legal noticeâs section of the newspaper.
No, thatâs what Facebook is for
corrections to that tweet
and in this case, the someone else is her
yeah, i feel like i see the âboth sidesâ in it. entrapment is bad, and yet in situations with groups with a long and storied history of violence i begin to understand why sting operations exist
100% agree. i mean one of the bundys is running for office. he and mtg will be great buddies if they arenât already 
Until a car backfires in their vicinity and they shoot each other down in a blaze of glory.
