French pro-Palestine protestors accused of "apology for terrorism"

That simply isn’t happening in any mainstream discussions about the issue, unless one were to willfully and cynically misinterpret calls for secular democracy in the region as “destroying” what currently exists.

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It’s funny, because what I’m seeing majorly is calling for the complete anihilation of Palestine… (borrowing from the other post, now that is clear this thread won’t be about French justice being… not just)

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Holy hell. Yeah that kind of language from IDF is very not ok. That’s the kind of thing that needs to stop.

But it doesn’t. Neither their politicians (the ones from Likud, mainly) do; it seems they have a free pass when it comes to call for those things… as long as is Palestine.

And as for calling the jewish people colonizers… well, if you know a bit about the history of Zionist colonization, they are the first to recognize their goals; they know the only way to claim that land as Jewish is to do a manifest destiny and displace, kill and erase all traces of the people living there. I can send some basic sources your way if you want, though as always, my recommendation would be to take those as a starting point and do your own research (don’t trust my biases, trust history :wink: ).

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I think that you will find that this is the mainstream position held by the majority of people. If you are seeing nothing but calls for annihilation, then I think that you may be spending too much time on social media that tends to magnify extremist viewpoints.

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And as for calling the jewish people colonizers…

You mean the indigenous people with millennia of unbroken history and connection to the land?

Zionists don’t have an unbroken connection to the land of Israel. That’s why they’re Zionists.

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You mean the people who live in Palestine?

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My family comes from sephardic jews who were expelled from Spain, took refuge in Portugal and were forced to convert and change their surname. Should I kill all non-sephardic spaniards based on that connection to my land?

Until the arrival of Zionism, Jews were not defined by a place of birth, but a shared culture.

You won’t get much traction here with these kinds of arguments :confused:

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You mean the people who live in Palestine ?

I mean specifically the people who live (and lived in) in what was once Israel and Judea. Not the Egyptian territory of Palestine, or the Roman territory of Palestine, or the Ottoman one, or the British one or…

This is the thing I’m struggling with here. No, obviously, that connection to the land does not justify killing all the other people who live there now, in the same way I wouldn’t support a bunch of Iroquois murdering New Yorkers. But it also doesn’t invalidate their indigenous claim. Both of those things can be true.

Zionism is only a century or so old, but the idea of a Jewish connection to the land has been throughout writings, holiday recitations, secular discussions, etc. (i.e. the Jewish culture) for millennia.

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But the culture of Palestinians had been just as tied to the land, in fact substantially moreso because they were on the land. So my Jewish wife is granted legal rights to return to a country that no one between her great grandparents and herself went to, but my neighbors a few doors down don’t have the right to the house they were born in after they were driven out by the Israeli government.

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It used to be Canaan before Isreal or Judea, and I’m pretty sure that the hundreds or thousands of generations of people who lived there before then still have descendants who live there now… the idea that they are the first, or the ones with the “most” right to the land is pretty iffy,.

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I would like to point that there’s always been a Jewish minority living in Palestine. It is just “reclaiming the land” that is a modern concept, that appears along with the rise of nationalisms in the 19th century Europe. That’s why I suggested to point to some historic sources that may help you overcome the contradictions you feel are here.

I may be wrong but I feel you equate jewishness with israel with zionism. Not all jews believe in the idea of Israel, not all Israelites believe in Zionism. But to someone born and raised in Israel in the last 30 years, their education system teaches that all three concepts are one and interchangeable, at least when it comes to the concept of nation. So more and more people is like the one I linked a couple posts ago: they truly believe all Palestine is for them to take, and the invaders are the Palestines. It is going to be very difficult to change their mind and to accept peace, because peace is not what they want.

How can ones be terrorists and not the others? It is, like Saint Augustine said, that the only difference between a pirate and a king is the size of their army?

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In English “Israelites” means the people of the Old Testament, not present-day Jews.

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No one is calling “Jews” that… you’re also assuming that ALL Jews are Zionists, and that’s patently untrue and always has been.

Do they deserve that right at the expense of OTHER indigenous people?

And the Palestinians don’t? And I thought Ashkenazim lived in Europe for about 1000 years?

Oh, I suppose that means I can go push out some nice Irish family out of a house County Kerry? :thinking:

THAT is what is happening though… Right now.

So they have a greater claim to the people who lived there for centuries, and let’s not forget that does include Jews who did not end up in Europe…

Seth Meyers Idk GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers

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Thanks, once again my “english not being native language” betrayed me again :rofl:

Excuse me for injecting a bit of levity here…
images

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Amazing how Romans taking over Judea doesn’t break a lineage but Romans taking over Palestine does.

We should be studying the Palestinian as a group who somehow sprung up into existence without a history or culture as old as any other modern peoples.

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And likely absolutely everyone is a descendent of every Canaanite who has any living descendants

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