If your response to systematic, provable harassment, degradation, and the rest towards a specific group (in this case women) is to point out an aspect in which a minority expresses any behavior like that of the majority, you’re not advancing the discussion, but, rather, being a troll.
Girls can be bullies. However, girls or women who are bullies do not systematically modify the opportunities for an entire class of people based on a physical or neurological attribute for the whole.
Lots of men or men-identified people believe that they have adequate insight into what it’s like to be a woman that they aren’t required to go through the experience of having grown up or lived as one to represent the viewpoint. It’s very consistent!
You know, you really didn’t. What is is with saying everything is a “strawman”? You really should read some actual books instead of “top 10 logical fallacies” infographics.
It’s time to … quash some dissent.
Also, excellent article. Some of the examples given are reasons why I’m disengaging with gaming culture - it gets frustrating being part of a group which overwhelmingly seems to want to shout down anyone criticising (from the inside as well) the relentless no girlz allowed bullshit.
Someone mentioned RPS, which (barring some of the comments, because what can you do) is definitely worth your time. Here is an excellent example.
I disagree. I think the quality of posts on RPS has gone down in recent years, mostly have Kieron Gillen left the site. Cara Ellison is no replacement for Leigh Alexander, who at the time wasn’t just “the token woman we’re not sexist guys no we’re so not sexist look we even have a woman writer!” Most of their articles are about the sexism in this or that, as if I have the memory span of a goldfish. And the linkbaiting in the site rework, oh boy. Actually, there was an interview by Nathan Grayson over Heroes of the Storm, Blizzard’s new MOBA-DOTAlike-whatever you want to call it, and he spent the end of the interview basically demanding that Kerrigan’s outfit was sexist. It very well could be, though I don’t know the difference between old Kerrigan’s skintight Ghost outfit and new Kerrigan’s skintight zergskin outfit. But his argument was terrible and I think he’d have got the point across better if he screamed and threw something. He didn’t know how to frame his point quickly, then he threw a FIT about it the next day because they “didn’t get it” when he completely failed to tell them why they should care at all. The dismissive statement used was, “We’re not running for President. We’re not sending a message. No one should look to our game for that.”
If this is the best representation that this movement has to offer, then it’s dead in the water. And the writing standards of RPS have gone down. Hell, Quinn had a small blow up over his New Vegas review and even that was better than the schlock that Nathan has churned out.
It’s a lot like fixing education- everyone knows what they want, no one knows how to get it, no one wants to do anything about it. Some people yell about it a bit but no one cares because no one has a plan. And the longer this goes on, the more laypeople like myself will question why should I care about this when there’s bigger problems to worry about and learn about, like South Sudan.
I’m guessing you read the article. Did you not catch the part about people who publish the female perspective in gaming being harassed?
No, I don’t mean your usual (also bigoted but not violent) “LOL faggot this game rulez and if you cant see it ur GAY” blowback…it’s death threats, rape threats, and calls for firing (because…a game review had an opinion in it???).
I think these responses are in the minority, but they’re still tolerated. Meanwhile, how many death threats are an acceptable number to a gamer with an opinion, do you think? Maybe if the threats to commit violence on authors with the female perspective subsided, we would find it emerging.
Me…I’d rather keep my mouth shut than get a death threat.
from the article:
But the all-female staff of GSK is an extreme anomaly in the industry.
cool. http://www.revolution60.com/page1/ and… mac.
A) It is emerging.
B) Its emergence is somewhat hindered by the fact that the women furnishing this perspective are frequently sent rape and death threats, which tends to run up against the limits of how much dedication anyone has for writing about games.
Death threats are endemic to the internet. This has been around for a while, and hell, it happened a lot face to face in the past. People quite literally attacked each other outside voting offices to keep each other from voting as recently as the 20’s for the white majority, to say nothing of the brutal murders against nonwhites up to the 70s. And I’ll take people having their feelings hurt over any power lawfully given to anyone to police it. The NSA can do it, but it’s still not legal, and that’s an important distinction.
Are you saying you don’t think he’s genuine, or are you saying you think it’s likely that his attempt to change will fail?
Truly, spoken as someone who has never received a serious threat of rape or death.
Hah, you’re joking, right? (Actually, I half hope kartwaffles was joking, but GlennF seems sincere…) Women are still people, and are every single bit as capable of being bullies who “systematically modify the opportunities for an entire class of people based on a physical or neurological attribute for the whole.” (or at least help! No bully manages to do it alone, this level of vileness is a team effort, but I’ve seen plenty of women take part)
But your opinions of women being somehow less capable of such things than men notwithstanding, you are correct that the idea of girls being bullies isn’t really relevant - hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the female bullies are amongst the voices trying to shut women down. Historically it’s been pretty common.
The topic, though, is those voices that are hurling the abuse and trying to keep women
(in this instance) out are an actual and pervasive problem, no matter the source. Anyone who doesn’t think gamer culture has problem with vitriol, resentment against women, and a whole lot of vileness in online comments (especially against groups that diverge from the ‘traditional gamer norm’, especially when those trying to shake the boat are women) hasn’t really been paying attention.
Burning strawmen everywhere! Save yourself!
might want to see this. Gamer shamer and hypocrite.
Anita Sarkeesian Posts violent murder fantasy of randy pitchford.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuIvX21VYU
Yes, because I absolutely must cave to threats by children and the childish. I’ve had a loaded gun with intent to kill pointed at me, for your information. Do not make assumptions about my standing if I simply happen to disagree with you. Some people are not used to the caustic freedom of the internet. Fine, but no one makes you interact with the public as a developer. The Dragon’s Crown artist received so many death threats and hatemail he’s choosing to no longer interact publically. That’s his call to make. Hell, that’s equality. I dare say that’s not exactly what people wanted.
Show me where on the body politic they touched you?
Seriously, though, no. Women, as a class or as individuals, are incapable of inflicting the pressures and problems on an entire class in the manner that a majority has.
If you’re talking about small-group dynamics, sure. But there’s a weird over-focus on “mean girls” which tries to paint a picture of bullying among girls that apparently is worse or more pervasive than among boys. It’s not false, just used as a way to deflect discussions.
I’m talking about writ large: as a class, whatever number of bullying women are out there, they don’t cause a drop in men’s wages, sexual violence against men, steering girls into lower-paid and non-male-dominated professions, etc.
I said nothing about women being less capable of specific behavior.
You also took no rebuttal of anything I said, instead you simply hid behind psuedo intellectualism. This is exactly the problem I have with this movement- my two options are “you’re on board”, or “fuck you get out”. There is no option for discourse here though I have tried to meet anyone that would disagree with me halfway.
Furthermore, women are people too. They’re completely capable of every flaw men are, such as bullying. To think otherwise… is sexist.
… I have no idea what the actual point your trying to make is. Either in those post or the previous one. Could you be clearer about what you are actually trying to communicate with your tidbits and stories? I don’t know what they are supposed to mean. Why do I care that you had a gun pointed at you? Or why an artist received death threats and stopped interacting publicly? Or per your original comment about people attacking each other outside voting offices? I don’t understand what any of this has to do with anything about the topic at hand.
Having someone intend to kill you is far more serious than a death threat. I am not unfamiliar with such things. I simply don’t find them half as serious, as it takes a leap of logic to assume a thirteen year old on Xbox Live is actually going to hunt you down. To receive a flood of death threats is different entirely, but I didn’t offer a solution- I stated, or at least meant to, that any solution would likely tamper down on the freedom that the internet and anonimity that the internet should provide.
I do tend to meander in my statements, and I apologize for that. However, I think historical context is important, and the comparison of then and now should never be ignored. To go from people in civilized worlds quite literally murdering each other because of voting differences to mere death threats, even if unnerving, is still an advancement.
Oh, don’t worry, they never touched me. I have the privilege of being a white male with no obvious physical or neurological diversions from the ‘norm’. My black friends though, especially my black female friends? That’s a different story.
And I’ve deleted the several other paragraphs I’ve written because I remembered that this still isn’t relevant to the topic at hand. If you want to continue the discussion, feel free to send me a PM or start another thread on the board (not in the comments for this article) and PM me the link.
