Forearms…that’s me. No idea why.
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You had to start this thread when I was low on my data plan… 
…but it’s a good one. I’m gonna collect my thoughts (and pics) and post some on it tomorrow…
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IMHO, a person cannot objectify themselves, so a big part of answering the question of whether the way someone is shown is objectification boils down to how much control or say the person had in their depiction. Ultimately aesthetics are relative and subjective. Objectification is about agency. Which is both why it’s really complicated, because agency is really complicated, and why it’s less common with men who on average get more say in their depiction.
I categorically reject any idea that everyone in a group in which society as a whole classifies someone has ownership over that person. So for example I don’t get to call another dude self-objectifying or shame him for how he presents. But if someone were using social levers such as career opportunities or social acceptance or salary to compel that person to present in a way they didn’t choose to, especially in order to satisfy the expectations of me or any other member of society, I should and would denounce that sort of coercion as objectification.
But of course it doesn’t happen as much with guys. One of the many reasons it happens less to us is because if we do present as body-positive, we’re much less likely to take flak for it from the peanut gallery. And that’s the flip side of it. While everyone should be free to present themselves on their terms, they should also be able to do so without fear of reprisal by either their employers or society as a whole.
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Honestly that guy doesn’t even look real. That torso is like molded plastic it’s so perfect. Greeks didn’t sculpt such flawlessness.
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Keeping it real…
I totally didn’t see @Melizmatic’s post of this same picture. Oh well, can’t have too much Idris, amirite?
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Yep, you totally need to tell her about sense8; there’s so much sizzle in that show coming from all freakin’ directions…
Right?
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I’ll step in with a mod comment, if nothing else:
Discussions and examples of objectification are welcome here. It’s an important topic, and BB has never shied away from topics of sexuality. However, to your comment:
Replies that objectify in a discussion that is not about that topic are out of place and will indeed be removed with prejudice, as the reply you are referencing was, as quickly as I am able.
As a last point, “family-friendly” is a relative term as Codefied in our guidelines, but I interpret it thusly: on-topic images and discussions are acceptable. If you are unsure, spoiler it. Replies that are off-topic or NSFW for the sake of being NSFW will be eaten.
Now, I know your question about how much objectification is “acceptable” was not intended to be “acceptable here on the BBS” specifically, but perhaps if nothing else, I hope my comments at least help to try and convey the atmosphere we are trying to foster, with some insight as to how we’ve chosen to tackle that question.
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This was back in the 90s, but objectification was a big topic in my life during college (Film & Media Studies).
I was taking a weightlifting course during junior college to fulfill some electives.
I can attest that the difference in the way I was received by women for those two years compared to any other point in my life was palpable and visceral. I was no Idris Elba, but for a lanky guy, I wasn’t miles from Andrew Garfield territory.
The interesting thing I felt was, most of the women I could tell were truly looking would have rather died before ever admitting to it. Why is that?
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For me, I think it’s so much about how Mads carries himself in the show. He’s definitely aware that that he’s a predator at the top of the food chain, so I think Mads sort of plays it out like the behavior and walk of a big cat. I think it’s rather sensual.
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Yo…
I have the utmost respect for you and all the hard work you do, but man…
*lolz
But seriously:
Easy answer:
Habitual but often subconscious repression, for fear of slut shaming.
Historically in our society, men are actively encouraged to have a vigorous interest in sex and sexuality, but women?
Not so much.
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I thought there was a bit more of this sort of the thing from The Collection.
Bt it’s not quite the modern superhero bod.
http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/building-a-bigger-action-hero-20140418
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I can wear the color blue because I think I look nice in it.
Likewise I can wear a skirt because I think I look nice in it.
Not everything is about sex.
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I would agree with you on that,it seems like a big taboo.
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True that. Both the Supernatural and GotG articles go into that in depth. The former looks at how applying objectivity to the leads’ performances enhances the comedy and informs the two main characters’ personalities; the latter looks at the difference between Hollywood objectivity towards mem vs towards women.
ETA: Objectivity is in the eye of the beholder; choosing to wear blue is in the agency of the person being objectified. Neither article gets into it, but traditionally applying objectivity to a person is seen as removing their agency.
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I appreciate your input, but if I may the point of pointing out that we ladies have to “endure” this here, too, of all places, is actually the point.
This is a blog of wonderful things, full of interesting people and dialogue and dare I say intellect. And yet, even here, even among a group of people that would bristle (and do) and even the slightest hint of sexism or racism or any sort of bigotry. Even here, we must “endure” the objectification of women because boobs are funny, apparently.
Thats the point of this, and its an excellent jumping off point for a larger conversation. Granted we’re being a little tongue in cheek about it, but I think its a valid and important conversation.
And so far, no one’s posted anything that doesn’t air on prime time TV. So totes family safe. (Ok, maybe my Tom Hardy is close to the line…)
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But I support them for having to fight the good fight!
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Definitely that’s the main one, but with a bit of empathy thrown in, I think. Women know how catcalling etc make them feel and may not want to do the same to someone else, however they may find them attractive or otherwise noticeable.
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Body building and weight lifting are interesting.
They do have an aesthetically pleasing outcome, but they also mean things like: dedication, planning, eating well, being fit over all. So while we are having a little tongue in cheek fun with all the cheesecake here, I do think that part of what is appealing about “muscles” on men, apart from just looking nice, is all the stuff that goes into getting them. Its like its the opposite of when women are in the male gaze. Women need to look effortless, low maintenance, “I woke up like this”. And never ever show the hard work that goes into being plucked and waxed and painted and dieted and spanxed into that image. But men get to work hard on their appearance and then revel in the outcome. “Do you even lift bro?” And women (and men) get to appreciate not only the outcome but also the hard work. Its always been interesting to me, this weird dichotomy.
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Certainly! I don’t know if you read the linked articles, but they weren’t about individual women’s clothing choices.
Where was that said?
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