Getting deplatformed from Apple. “Your account has been permanently disabled. There is nothing else you can do, there is no escalation path.”

Oh, I am sure it has something to do with my impatience. I don’t see why I should ever be required to know a secret handshake, so-to-speak, to listen to music I own on a device I own.

It’s all still there on my computer. All the cds are gone from my iPhone library in the cloud and on the phone. I can not drag and drop any of that burned music to my phone from iTunes on my Mac (I haven’t actually tried in a couple years, though.) All the purchased music is in the cloud and can be downloaded if I want, but my connection out here in the country is very slow and limited to a gig a month. I did download a lot of it to my last phone then when I got a new phone they did it again. Instead of moving my music to the new phone they made it available in the cloud again. WHY? Because they want me to use the fucking cloud and I can’t with the state of my set up. So I suddenly fall out of the target market for Apple and just lose a lot of work in the process. Apple shrugs. It shouldn’t require secret handshakes anyway. It’s juvenile.

edited for minor grammar error.

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Yes, I come from a computer engineer background. And yes, I realize that this stuff is easier for me than for laymen.

However, at some time tackling these problems is part of adulting, like doing your taxes, spending less than you earn (when you have that option), doing laundry not when you have literally nothing to wear and than realizing that washing and drying isn’t instantaneous.

That’s why I brought up the key example, which should be easy enough to understand. If you put all your stuff in one place, you create a single point of failure.

Like putting all your credit cards in one wallet. Like having all your money in one account and using only that one. And before computers it was “having all your telephone numbers in one book”.

And it’s not like Apple didn’t explain that stuff. Pretty sure that they have an explanation when I set it up, with a link to https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204915 :

„Trusted phone numbers“

A trusted phone number is a number that can be used to receive verification codes by text message or automated phone call. You must verify at least one trusted phone number to enroll in two-factor authentication.

You should also consider verifying an additional phone number you can access, such as a home phone, or a number used by a family member or close friend. You can use this number if you temporarily can’t access your primary number or your own devices“

Security and convenience are often at odds. Lots of companies try to steer users towards more safety, far smarter engineers than I work at Apple and Google and try to make it easier. But even Google is still basically at “Don’t lose or drop your phone, but if you do, you better have access to the magical passwords we asked you to keep safe.” (Which then promptly are discarded or stored on Google Docs.)

Of course, your don’t habe two two-factor authentication. Not doing so is unsafer than using it, but not as unsafe as leaving your car unlocked and the motor running when you park your car to get something from the corner store. But unsafe enough that celebrities will expose their password and then find their nude photos one the web, with certain journalists gleefully blasting how unsafe “Apple/Twitter/FaceBook“ are and that they should have pushed for two factor and that you, dear reader, should use two factor. And then neglecting to tell you that it isn’t magical fairy dust and that you can run into problem like yours.

Now, regarding your questions:

  • The landline is actually easy, you can set that one to voicemail and query this voicemail remotely.
  • The 2nd option is to take our the SIM our of your iPhone, if it’s still working, and put it in another phone.
  • The easiest option, if you don’t have a trusted person with you, who have their own phones, is to get a dumb mobile with their own sim. It’s less than $50, heck, you can have this for free when you ask people for a discarded near-obsolete smartphone and get some ad-based tariff. It’s how I use WhatsApp, something I deeply despise, but cannot avoid unless I want to be out of the loop with regards to the other parents in my kid’s class and his judo class. Totally disconnected from my main system, eat dirt, Zuckerberg.

You can call Apple, in a way. It’s the account recovery process. Be prepared to know the answers to your security questions, though. Otherwise you’ll have problems.

Just calling, however, would be counter produce. The whole point of two factor authentication is that having a bit of knowledge (especially the password) isn’t enough to access your account. Otherwise you’d basically expect that a locksmith would open up you’re door in your say so. Or a bank issuing you a new password by phone.

Sorry, but your story still don’t pans out. You can still sync locally, you can still do full backups locally.

There isn’t a secret handshake to this.

Apple doesn’t magically enable its cloud service. And the best their free service offers is 5 GB worth of backup data on iOS, which is enough to backup most of your local data on an iDevice, excluding, of course, photos, movies, music, and apps. The latter being the least problem, as Apple has them on file, of course. The others you have to backup yourself.

That tier works splendidly for my mother and wife, who have nearly no user generated data on their devices. But who, by this measure, have and current backup of all their important data without having to do local backups.

I work in IT. I will (hopefully) never claim that this and that obscure situation cannot possibly be the vendors fault.

But at this point, your story sounds awfully like one of my colleague who constantly runs into strange problems, because he does want to have some specific feature, but feels the need to use some non-standard ways to achieve them, like using non-functional e-mail addresses to register or disabling GPS on maps and then trying to use real time navigation and stuff like that.

Mobile.Me was a pestering pile of shite when it was released, but that was ages ago and actually resolved rather quickly once Jobs put down his foot…

Sir, I don’t care for your tone.

You present some interesting solutions. None of them work for me. Your suggestions of carrying a separate phone or setting up a landline for the sole purpose of setting up security is laughable. Effective, as described perhaps, but not convenient, to say the least, and expensive.

And for the record: I never asked for 2FA, it was forced upon me. I do keep all my credit cards in one wallet. I do have all my money in one account and all my phone number where kept in a single Rolodex when that was a thing - though I am familiar with the concept of putting all one’s eggs in a single basket. Though I did try it once, having a different wallet for each credit card just didn’t work out. Perhaps that’s something I need to practice for this adulting you mention.

You can call Apple to get access - it just takes several weeks.

The thing that gets me about all of this is, typical of engineer thinking, is that you’re sold on this as an acceptable solution to a difficult problem. Just because something works, doesn’t mean that it’s the best way to do it or even acceptable. (When was the last time you had to double clutch?) In 10 years do you think this will be how security works? This system is a Norman Door and it sucks.

The thing is, products and services that aren’t convenient not only die just as soon as something better comes along, people have to hack together their own solutions. Probably less secure options, but there you go.

I won’t risk being locked out of my email while abroad, but setting up a second phone of any kind is undoable - so now forward all my email to another service that doesn’t require I have a phone to use it. I can log into Google all the life-long-day no matter what state my phone is in. Is this less secure? You bet. But I have no other options.

And that is why I’m off the Apple wagon after more than… 25(ish) years.

I’m not suggesting I have a better solution, mind you. And I’m glad if this 2FA works for you, but it’s unworkable for me, and I would assume most people just haven’t actually experienced how bad it can get. This Boing Boing post for example.

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Memory has become more inexpensive compared to the past. A fast 128GB SD card can be had for around 20 bucks. The file collection on my phone is slightly smaller than that, and it contains enough music to play for over two weeks continuously. It’s a slightly unsatisfactory solution that mobile and non-mobile collections are separate and must be managed a bit - with manual transfers over USB and occasional file deletion and clean-up phases. However, it’s far less work than it used to be burning CD’s and making mixtapes etc. (almost nothing in the collection exists on streaming services, so that is a non-option).

Trusting media companies like Apple to manage and host ones information collection seems bound to fail. Using the network to access a static collection also seems a bit bonkers and wasteful of bandwidth.

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From the Quartz article:

The company explained to me that a number of gift cards had been intercepted and stolen during delivery to legitimate retailers, including the card I purchased.

In terms of 3rd party sellers, itunes gift cards are sold everywhere. Walgreens, Walmart, Best Buy, Costco, Target, from PayPal via eBay…and basically anyone Apple sells them to. This wasn’t the result of buying from a dodgy site, even Apple admitted it. it was purely Apple’s mishandling of the issue. The site also refunded him …it was MassGenie, according to the Quartz article.

MassGenie, the company who sold me the stolen gift card, also eventually apologized and refunded me for the purchase

Would you buy them from a 3rd party site like Target, or Costco, or Walmart? because they also sell iTunes gift cards, sometimes at discounts.

I would not call those places a 3rd party. When I say that I mean places that buy the cards from individuals to resell them. Box stores don’t do that.

Try hitting ctrl-f twice. Closes the BB search window and opens the browser’s (at least on Opera and Edge).

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That isn’t what happened in this case.

Sounds like it to me. Of course the author is vague so we’ll never know. But I’m pretty certain a new card from a major store chain wouldn’t have been reported as stolen… it sounds like the card was bought from a discount site that resells unwanted gift cards. And those are prone to be a way for people to dump stolen cards. Again, the author is vague so we’ll never know for sure.

He’s not exactly vague about it. As @megguspee pointed out above, he gives all the details you crave in his article.

And again, none of that is relevant to the issue he is raising. Which is that in response to his having been sold a stolen giftcard Apple decided to and could prevent/restrict his access to his entirely legitimately purchased stuff without any recourse.

He thinks more people should be aware of that and plan accordingly.

I think we can all agree with that.

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I totally agree. My point was that it seems a cautionary tale about discount gift cards. I’m not trying to defend apple for killing his account. that’s insane and I hope he gets his account restored somehow. Personally I don’t trust the cloud and keep an external backup of files and rip off the DRM when I can.

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“When you design stuff, you have to assume drivers are going to obey the traffic signs and markings," said the worst traffic engineer ever.

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&$@#, you’re absolutely right. Had a complete brain fart not-remembering that bit. thanks. :man_facepalming:

For whatever reason I don’t really think of those as 3rd party. You’re right they are, but 3rd party in my mind is resellers/gray market, or something like a non-amazon stores selling on amazon.

None of that excuses Apple, and never meant to imply they didn’t mess up badly. My point is that Google, or anyone else, is likely to mess up just as badly at some point, so going all in with anyone should not be the takeway from the article.

“I’m not making any hasty decisions, but when it comes time to upgrade my phone, I’m likely going to try out an Android. After what’s happened with Apple, I want to engage in a bit of digital independence and not tie myself to a single company’s ecosystem.”

The statement just feels like it needs a bit more. Is it so the authors phone and desktops (if spending $15k with apple, I’m assuming it involves a laptop or desktop) are separate eco-systems? That is valid. Is it because Android is ‘more open’ and 3rd party apps (like Spotify, your choice of photo upload, news reading, whatever) work a little better togeher than iOS where things are more locked down once outside of Apple’s apps? Again, valid point. Is it because as a last resort you can side-load apps a little easier? Sure. Is it just because it’s not Apple, and you’ll go all in with Google suite of apps and services? Nope, not a good plan. Which of those things did the author mean? Who knows?

This is my own personal risk aversion speaking, but I stay away from 3rd party sellers on online platforms, whether Amazon, Best Buy, or Walmart unless I know them specifically. (I guess they would technically be 4th party?). The MassGenie site is a no-no for me. It doesn’t look like they are actually selling anything just facilitating a group of strangers to get together for bulk discounts from other sellers. The itunes giftcard is sold by DealGuru for example - https://www.massgenie.com/apple-itunes-gift-card-50-yl9e6doizovjpfzt. Who are they? Maybe a warlord with an army of slave child labourers. Maybe clones of Mother Teresa who do this to fund their homeless shelter for amputated kids. I dunno. I’m sure they’re perfectly fine, but to me that is too many cooks in the kitchen should anything go wrong. Again, saying this to shift blame away from Apple, MassGenie handled things perfectly well by the authors account, just my personal preference.

edit - whelp, didn’t think I was writing an essay. ಠ_ಠ

He did.

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