Getting their due: Misogyny and Women in music in the 80s/90s

Not enough likes in the universe for Bjork and especially this song

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Thanks for the link. If anyone still needs any convincing that @anon61221983 is speaking truth, reading that article should do the trick. Can you imagine an interviewer asking the organizer of a male-headlined or male-dominated festival, “Why do you hate women?” Yet McLachlan got asked why she hated men all the time while organizing Lilith Fair.

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A man married my cousin and was exceptionally mentally, physically, and sexually abusive to her and to many members of her (our) extended family, as well as others. It happened that the father of a friend of mine represented this abuser’s family in a civil suit against the man who ended up killing him to defend his wife. I told him “don’t bother trying to get anyone from our family to act as a character witness for that man. In fact, I would love to take the ‘killer’ and his wife out to dinner to thank them.” Three years later, I happened to run into the lawyer at a social event. In front of my DAD, his first words to me were “so, do you still hate all men?”

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What a jerk. I hope you said, no, not all, but you just made the list longer, asshole.

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Your post above brought that memory back in a flash! Yeah, if a woman gives any indication that she is not pro-all-men, all-the-time, then somehow that translates to “why do you hate men?” I’ve never understood how that process works in people’s minds.

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I was extremely lucky to be raised as part of a strong Mohawk family, which has traditionally had Male Chiefs but also “Clan Mothers” who were responsible for edicts like “No wars until you get us dinner!” and so on.

As a result, (and without understanding it at the time) I grew up with an understanding of women in relationships (social, familial, etc) being treated as equals. Only in adulthood did I understand how important that was growing up - so much so that what you said above - the idea that a “strong woman” must hate men, is an alien concept.

As an adult, though, I’ve seen how rare that sort of situation has been for a lot of “traditional” white households who might have grown up with a man as a primary earner, and women as secondary (despite, as is often the case, having more responsibility and doing more for the overall day-to-day of the household, especially where children are involved). Translate that divide into art and culture, and suddenly you have music by empowered women like Ms. Morissette being considered “pop” or otherwise “frivolous” as a direct extension of that mindset.

And, of course, the asshole behaviour you mention above - “strong women” = “man haters”.

Uuuuugh.

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@orenwolf - read any of Rebecca Roanhorse’s new stuff? So.Damn. Fun!

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Ha! Hadn’t heard of her, but I will be reading her stories now. Thanks for the tip!

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Oooh, is it a book?

That “Authentic Indian Experience” story is awesome, so I’ve been waiting!

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Award winning urban fantasy.

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