Giving no-strings-attached money to the world's poorest produces remarkably good results

@anon15383236, I meant my criticism of you in this thread was edited away, so I suspect any criticism of your opinions by others was as well.

It’s hard to talk to you, because you constantly try to distort my views and put words in my mouth. Example:

[quote=“anon15383236, post:40, topic:12954”]why does the centuries-long accrual of wealth at the expense of non-white others, via a wide and readily discernible array of white supremacist ideologies, laws, and methods, not bother you,
[/quote]

It does bother me, and I am actively doing something about it. Every day.

It always seems to me that you enjoy a privileged position, but you want to use it like a wrecking ball. On bOINGbOING you have community support for your overt premise - that racism is bad - and you use it to push opinions and ideas that rest on a premise that human beings should always be primarily categorized by skin color. I don’t care for it; I think your ideas are racist and counter-productive and undermine the work of people like myself.

A wise man said we should judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin, and that all those in need deserve our help.

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Cool. So what, since you brought it up, are you doing?

And btw it’s good to read there that, despite what you wrote elsewhere, that you actually do think addressing people’s problems in terms of race, and not just the content of their character, is a good thing to do.

If you think that’s a premise underlying what I write here, you’re wrong. To point to race is one ongoing categorical mode of oppression is not to deny that others exist. Did you completely miss my exchange with Mindysan33 above, where I wrote the following?

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You know, that absolutely is the nub of it. I’ve got various names for it - the Mugabe Syndrome for instance - the key behavioural driver being that the individual wants nothing more than to lord it up over all others - and even if they end up domineering over a pile of dung, they’re equally happy.

It’s a basic bit of humanity, to our shame.

The individuals coalesce together in a matrix of necessity, where each has adequate interest in maintaining contact and repelling threats (to their power) that they are obliged to form a community with its own rules, etiquette etc In the UK, for instance, it’s too hard to take the final leap upwards from the matrix to dominate all below - you cannot find the right incentive structure to create the layer of lieutenants you need to enforce your way.

I’ve heard tell, from useful sources, of 500 workers getting laid off because the owner isn’t hitting 15.1% growth like the guy he plays tennis with, and he wants to bump it so that in three months he can boast.

My mind is dedicated to changing this economic nonsense for the better.

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Ask them.

My question for you is this. Why don’t you create such a program instead of posing criticism of people who are doing something, somewhere?

To my mind your cartoon is missing a couple of people. For starters, there’s me, up there personally pulling people up regardless of their physical characteristics. And there’s you, down below, trying to pull people down based on skin color and ancestry - attributes people can’t change. But the cartoon’s metaphor breaks, because you’re not really personally pulling people down, you are instead agitating for the use of government force to do it for you. And also because it’s an inherently divisive and confrontational mode of discourse; when you fire that at me, you are attacking me, and when I say the things I just said, I’m counterattacking.

I refuse to accept your categorization of all black people as victims and all white people as oppressors. I stand with the persons of good character, regardless of skin color or victim status, and against all oppressors - such as those who want forcible race-based income redistribution.

There’s two problems with that challenge; one, you have no reason to believe anything I say, and two, I cannot reply entirely freely since several other peoples’ privacy is involved. I’ll answer to the limit I honorably can, and then I’ll have proved nothing.

As we all should, I use a portion of my income to further my social goals. In my case this includes funding Afghan orphanages, the social justice programs of the Unitarian Universalist Church and the Society of Friends, Habitat for Humanity, and the Heifer Project. I also pay for the provision of the SPLC’s “Teaching Tolerance” instructional materials to local schools.

As we all should, I also use a portion of my time to help organizations that are working towards my social goals. Since I’m physically capable of it, I repair and maintain the premises of local Unitarian churches and schools, doing plumbing, wiring, masonry, etc. I am occasionally involved in local politics in a very minor way (I was a Republican voting official during the first Obama election, for example, and I like to think my letters helped persuade a Republican state congressman to vote for marriage equality).

I have a teenage child, adopted at birth from the closest large city. I have spent her whole life doing everything I can for her, because I love her. And I don’t love her because she is “Black”; I love her because of the person she is, and that is the house that her soul lives in. I am not infertile and she is not my only child, and I didn’t ask the adoption agency for a child of any particular color or abilities, I asked them for a child that needed loving parents. I’d adopt ten more if my wife would let me, and race would not be an issue - only need.

I think air and water pollution are the biggest social issues of our lifetime - “global warming” is just a tedious hipster way to say “air pollution” (like calling your car your “wheels” when it’s far more than just that). So I use the least polluting cars I can afford, the least polluting tractor I can afford, as much locally produced food as I can afford, and I recycle or compost the majority of my household waste. This tends to benefit poor people of color more than anyone else, and while this pleases me it’s not why I do it.

I feel strongly that Wangari Maathai’s style of environmental activism is the best way to improve the lot of everyone - regardless of race or gender. I have purchased a home that controls of a portion of the water supply of the nearest town, and am actively maintaining and improving the health of that stream, despite the obstructionism of the corrupt state agencies who are supposed to be doing this (the state allows privileged white persons to dump in the stream, and arrests brown persons - but a neighbor and I have been physically intervening to stop all dumping, which is apparently orchestrated by a politically connected Wilmington police officer). I have planted over a hundred native trees along the stream, mostly on my own property where I can prevent said officer from cutting them down.

I’m heavily involved in technology recycling, entirely on my own. I have provided about a hundred complete computer systems (I don’t keep count) built from recycled parts to people and institutions that could not afford to purchase them, including systems for shut-in elders, a terminally ill child, a single mother of handicapped children, and guys who just don’t have good-paying jobs. I’ve never made race a factor in any of that, only need, and I refuse to let any agency become involved (although I do work with individual local clergy and teachers).

And lastly, I try to enlighten people, and to bear witness. I try to speak out when I hear ideas - especially unexamined ideas - that hold people back. I’ve stood up during a church sermon and argued with a preacher who was supporting the idea that all white people are inherently and unforgivably racists and all black people are permanent victims incapable of racism. That sort of divisive nonsense harms nearly everyone involved - except corrupt leaders like Louis Farrakhan and David Duke, who thrive on setting common people against each other.

I lack persuasive writing skills, I have a sometimes irascible nature, my prose is overly prolix, I have many commonplace human failings. But I agree with the Buddha, who said each one of us should personally take all responsibility for all suffering in the world, and with the Koheleth, who said “whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” If I see someone promoting unnecessary divisiveness - for example someone who plays on the theme of white guilt or black resentment - I will call it out, even if I’m ridiculed or called a racist for it. Because it’s what a human should do, we should stand up for our beliefs, and I believe we’re all one entity.

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Thanks for explaining where you’re coming from. As often happens on the Net, I find again that the person I’d become embattled with turns out to be a lot like me. And a lot of the things you do are like a lot of the things I do (and indeed, kudos to you, you do even more of them).

Your comment also clarifies, for me at least, what our basic disagreement seems to be. If I’m reading you right, you believe in individualized solutions to large-scale problems, and you distrust and disdain institutional ones, including (especially?) governmental ones. You also take an individualistic approach to race; you have no problem adopting a black child, because you don’t care about her blackness – you only see her need.

I, on the other hand, do care about blackness, and in a more general sense, because I think mainstream (i.e., white) America has long treated black people (no, not ALL black people, and no, not ALL white people) badly, in ways that continue to significantly degrade their general health, wealth, opportunity, and so on. I also have faith in the power of centralized government, and that’s because it has done so much to help groups of people in the past – specifically, white people. And if its powers can efficiently help them as a group, as it definitely has, those powers can certainly be marshaled to counteract such advantages, and consequent disadvantages for others, by helping those others.

The problem I see, and one which I think you’re overlooking, is that the racial hierarchy we still live in – with whites IN GENERAL on top, in so many ways – is a direct consequence not of individual initiative on the part of whites, but of federal policy. See, for instance, Karen Brodkin (in How Jews became White Folks) on how the GI Bill constitutes the largest affirmative action program in U.S. history, a program that in several key ways specifically targeted and benefited whites.

You seem like a sincere person. And maybe even a humble one. If the latter, I hope you won’t take it badly if I say that to me, you seem in an important way uninformed. If you are sincere, and still willing at whatever age you are to keep learning, I implore you to read the interview linked below. It’s the clearest explanation I’ve seen of how federal policies have specifically benefited whites in general, at the expense of non-whites. It also addresses an implicit theme in much of what you’re saying, the fallacious notion of contemporary “white innocence.”

When I read such things, and when I apply that knowledge to the world and my own practices, I find confirmation for my belief that in general, white America owes a hell of a lot to non-white America, especially black America. And my belief that saying so does not “play on the theme of white guilt or black resentment.” Since you write with detailed care, and since you do have knowledge and experience with related issues, I’d really like to read your response(s) to it.

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-03-06.htm

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OK, it’ll take me a while to read that, but I will.

Not quite. I do believe that individuals have moral obligations, and that the existence of larger institutions doesn’t relieve us of individual responsibility, yes. And our current government is grotesquely corrupt and inadequate, yes, I believe that too. But I am still in favor of institutions and groups that address inequality by bringing people up - such as Heifer International, an organization founded by Christians that does not limit its actions to helping other Christians, and which does not enforce and sustain inequality in social status by increasing dependencies - their “pay it forwards” system addresses the social problems that purely economic efforts often exacerbate. I am rather fond of government-mandated affirmative action in college admissions, too, although that’s less admirable than Heifer’s methods.

You know, the original article which started this thread implies that giving people gifts without holding them to some account often helps them and their communities. This does not surprise me at all. Holding people to account, for their own sins or those of their forebears, is a socially degrading ritual humiliation that creates anger and resentment, and enforces unequal social hierarchies. It’s often necessary to hold an individual responsible for their own acts, but can you look at the cycle of tit-for-tat ethnic violence in India, and tell me that holding modern Muslims accountable for the crimes of the Mughals has helped ethnic Hindus? Or anyone for that matter, other than ruthless and opportunistic leaders?

The worst possible way I can think of to address color-line inequalities in the USA would be to charge a government agency with determining who was “black enough” to get a handout, and who was “white enough” to have their money confiscated for that purpose. I don’t even think that would be a good idea if we had fair and competent governance, because such an organization would be inherently racist, and not in any good or useful way. Government mandated race-based wealth redistribution would be a nightmare scenario certain to create hatred and suffering far in excess of any benefit it might give.

Fighting fire with fire just burns everything down; fighting institutional racism by escalating its reach is the same.

It would indeed be difficult, though not, I think, impossible.

What about giving money directly to all individuals of whatever color, including white, living in areas known to have become economically ravaged at the hands of white supremacist government policies, such as “redlining,” or the draining of resources from largely black inner cities out to more or less exclusively (and intentionally) white suburbs?

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Well, in my personal opinion, that’s a fantastically better idea. It eliminates the mistake of using race as a selector, while still explicitly addressing the need to repair the effects of institutionalized racism. Such a program might need to have some kind of means of preventing well-to-do opportunists from moving into the area just long enough to get a handout, but that would be pretty easy to regulate. I would love to have my tax dollars support something like that, rather than being spent on foreign military adventuring or propping up the privileged bankster class.

Sorry I didn’t respond sooner, I have to squeeze BB in between jobs during the working day. If I do it too much, it ends up making me have to stay late to get my work done, and then the family is annoyed because I’m not there to help with dinner.

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That’s what Australia did, and we’ve been doing swimmingly. The various world economic organisations said that the immediate cash grants to average citizens, followed by a massive building program (focused on school facilities, halls, classrooms) largely cushioned Australia from the GFC. We Narrowly avoided technically going into recession. The minerals demand from China helped, but the big spend, focused in those two areas, was apparently the major reason Australia didn’t suffer as badly as the rest of the world.

Of course, because we didn’t suffer that badly, and also haven’t really seen how badly the rest of the world is doing, we kicked out the Gov that saved us and brought in the people who said they would have done a lot less to nothing!

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That’s fascinating! I know little about Australian politics (Australian history, science fiction and folk songs, that stuff I know pretty good) but news stories lately have made your current government sound pretty disastrous.

Now I’m imagining we followed @anon15383236’s idea and handed out no-strings attached grants to everyone living in the most impoverished areas of the rural southeastern USA (which are still suffering the economic effects of slavery, the Civil War, and centuries of institutionalized bigotry) and followed up with a massive program of cleaning up the environment and building educational infrastructure… Even if it didn’t work the way I think it would, what a wonderful way to spend the riches our government currently wastes on boondoggles and bloodshed!

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