Google, like the rest of the world, finally backing away from Google+

I just have to add that BoingBoing’s presence on G+ is terrible. You need to fire whoever is handling the G+ account and get someone who knows what they’re doing.

For example:

  • Posts from the blog are shared on G+ days (sometimes over a week)
    late.
  • Sometimes they’re posted after time sensitive events (“check out the eclipse tonight – err, two nights ago”).
  • Posts go up with completely irrelevant and misleading images. Someone’s not paying attention.
  • When sharing videos, a screenshot of the video and “play” icon are posted. I’ve lost count of how many of those I’ve clicked on, not realizing they were jpegs.
  • There’s an increasing number of repeat posts.
  • I’ve never seen a single reply from the BoingBoing account.

Perhaps it’s all done via scripting, but scripts aren’t a good way to handle social media.

I see lots of comments like this and yet I don’t understand one thing which is this.

When they insisted real names only, I thought maybe I’d give it a look when they got their head out of their asses.

And yet you’re on Facebook which has the exact same Real Names policy. So it seems like you’re okay that Facebook has a their heads up their asses real names policy but you’re not okay that Google+ has one?

Note: I’m not saying there aren’t other reasons for dissing G+. Only that I don’t get how so many people will say in the same breath “I hate G+ because of real names. Oh, but I’m happy with Facebook which requires real names”

You might have understood it if you read a little further.

Having to use real names makes it Facebook, only with far less users. I’ve already GOT one company that’s trying to associate everything possible to my real name, why do I need two? So in addition to not getting the benefit I was hoping for, I also have the chore of having to try to convince my existing social circle to migrate? Which probably isn’t going to happen, so, realistically, what’s going to end up happening if I try is I’ll be stuck using both, which is a pain. And why? All so you (Google, I mean) can make a buck off it all? Sorry, if you want me to do work, you’d better damn well be offering something great.

Also, with Facebook… I started it when it was gathering steam, when the real-names-only was a novelty, and before it started getting hooked into everything else on the Net. It was JUST “the place I might go to use my real name and connect to people from my past,” which I saw a use for (and still do, although now there are enough drawbacks to make it kind of suck). Google+ started out when it was no longer a novelty and where they were clearly trying to be the next place where everything was integrated and you have to comment on places with your Google+ id (and then started to push it MORE). Again, $!@# that. If they let me have my pseudonymity and not insist that I present a single face everywhere, I’d have found uses for it.

But instead they decided to be Facebook, with less users, and a few marginal improvements on interface. I don’t need two Facebooks.

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It’s one thing to offer anecdotal evidence that coincides with a greater reality and quite another when it doesn’t.

The truth of the matter Google+ is a relative “ghost town” once one stops conflating their numbers with YouTube that rammed Google+ down the throats of millions of users whether they wanted it or not (including my YouTube account and fuck them).

It’s one thing to count people that gravitate towards something in a grassroots manner, it’s quite another when you count people that were using a different service that was bought out by a monopolistic corporation that then decides against their will to jam their account into its social web app in order to conflate its numbers.

[quote=“Bodhipaksa, post:70, topic:29436”]
No, but claims that G+ is a “ghost town” are patently ridiculous to those who use it and find it to be an amazing way to meet and share with interesting people, and who find the Communities and Hangouts to be life-changing assets.[/quote]

Amazing? Life-changing? Er, ok… If you don’t shill for Google, you should start and get paid for your efforts.

The truth of the matter is Google+ adoption has been relatively glacial compared to other social networks in the past once you consider the Google+ “adoption” numbers are conflated with people that either didn’t want to use Google+ in the first place (YouTube users, etc., etc.) and those that aren’t very active with the accounts they’ve been shoehorned with (or at least not wittingly).

Look at the profile screenshot illustrating this article: 6.5 million followers, 117 millions views. That’s a ghost town? Better call Ghostbusters.

6.5 million followers of the guy who was the head of Google+?

Ok, how about nearly 30 million followers for the guy who is the head of Facebook?

Nevermind the fact that numbers for both are so conflated from fake accounts and shilling that they lose most meaning. Also, why are you bothering with 117 millions views? It doesn’t say 117 millions views from Google+ users.

If you want to say that Google+ is popular, then I’d agree with you based upon raw numbers. But if we use critical thinking and delve into those numbers we’ll see where a monopolistic corporation can boost numbers by using its weight to shoehorn people into its system.

The Comcast oligopoly (and monopoly in most areas) is one of the most despised corporations in America that can also point to its huge numbers of subscribers and say that properly reflects its “popularity”. Of course, we’d then have to forget the fact that an overwhelming number of those who “choose” to use Comcast only do so because the don’t have another choice for cable Internet.

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I would say like many things here, there’s a complex, diverse and evolving opinion on Google+. Boing Boing has obviously promoted Google+ multiple times, etc.

But, I also think it’s safe to say like many people who liked Google+ at first, some of their moves soured it.

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Oh swell, I’m the beneficiary of a bovine-fide link roundup. :smiley: Thanks, Cow!

Let me reassure you though, I’ve been following along.

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[quote=“Cowicide, post:74, topic:29436”]
Amazing? Life-changing? Er, ok… If you don’t shill for Google, you should start and get paid for your efforts.[/quote]

The fact is that G+ has been life-changing for me. I teach meditation, and G+ has been the first social media site where I’ve been able to generate any kind of community of people interested in and influenced by my work. The Community I’ve created there is thriving. It doesn’t even require any moderation on my part: the communication is 100% positive and people are offering each other support ant encouragement all the time. I don’t quite understand it, myself.

It’s been successful to the point where if I need, say, financial resources, I can simply ask for them and they appear. I’ve used FB and Twitter for years (although I’ve mostly given up on them now) and never seen anything like that, or like the degree of mutual support that people are offering each other in the Community. So, yeah, it’s changed my life in substantial ways, allowing me to teach and write full time, which I’ve never been able to do before.

“Relatively glacial”? as in Twitter taking 1,800 days to reach 100 million users, Facebook taking 1,665 days, and G+ achieving that number in 240 days? (And this was long before Youtube integration.) I think we forget how long FB in particular has been around, and how gradual its growth was.

Yes, you can’t trust the numbers given by any of these companies, but if you’re looking for independent assessments, then Searchmetric’s analysis of +1 growth over 15 months compared to “like” growth over the same period showed 788% growth for the ghost town compared to 202% growth for Facebook.

I’m glad we can agree since that’s all I’m saying. Reporters can repeat “ghost town ghost town ghost town” ad nauseam, (which is much easier than actually thinking, analyzing data, or otherwise doing real reporting) but the fact remains that Google+ is, in a way that’s quite different from Facebook or Twitter, thriving.

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“Relatively glacial”? as in Twitter taking 1,800 days to reach 100 million users, Facebook taking 1,665 days, and G+ achieving that number in 240 days? (And this was long before Youtube integration.) I think we forget how long FB in particular has been around, and how gradual its growth was.

Unfortunately, you’re parroting Google’s public relations talking points in regards to massively oversimplified comparative growth. And, like Google’s public relations, you are leaving out the major factor of time periods when you compare these growth statistics.

It was a very different time period when Facebook started about a decade ago in 2004. The iPhone wasn’t even released until 5 years later. The iPad tablet was even later. Android even later. On the other hand, around the time Google+ started there was already an explosion of smartphones, tablets and phablets on the market that pulled many more social users onto the web that weren’t there before.

Same goes for Twitter which was started about 8 years ago versus Google+ getting started a mere few years ago. You’re also ignoring that Google+ started after Facebook and Twitter began to reach their saturation points and who’d also paved a road for other social apps to follow.

Once you take out the Google public relations spin while properly factoring into the equation the disparate time periods of growth, saturation and how Google rammed people into its services, one gets a much more realistic picture of Google+'s true, glacial growth compared to Facebook, Twitter, etc.

The fact is that G+ has been life-changing for me. I teach meditation, and G+ has been the first social media site where I’ve been able to generate any kind of community of people interested in and influenced by my work.

Your anecdotal experience sounds good, but it’s not very compelling without more information. Had you tried other options and they failed? If so, which options did you try and how and why did they fail?

That’s truly great that it’s worked out for you and I mean this sincerely. But the other fact is that there’s plenty of other online venues with very successful, tight-knit communities that have nothing or little to do with Google+ or Facebook to attribute to their success.

it’s changed my life in substantial ways, allowing me to teach and write full time, which I’ve never been able to do before.

I posit it it may not have been Google+ that changed your life, but perhaps your efforts to reach out to others online that changed your life. Maybe you should pat your own back instead of Google’s?

I also hope for your sake that Google+ isn’t yet another passing fancy for Google to abandon. Google has quite an extensive graveyard in this regard including some very coveted offerings.

But, then again, that’s going to be the risk you take when your business, community, etc. is tied to the will of a giant oligopoly/monoply with much more money than it has ethics, loyalty for its user base, etc.

I’m glad we can agree since that’s all I’m saying. Reporters can repeat “ghost town ghost town ghost town” ad nauseam, (which is much easier than actually thinking, analyzing data, or otherwise doing real reporting)

Well, as I showed you above, if one does actual thinking and proper analysis, the Google+ growth compared to Facebook and Twitter is blown wildly out of proportion by the media that all too often parrots Google’s public relations drivel.

If you look at a lot of the reporting on Google+ growth, you’ll see an overwhelming amount that unfairly compares the growth to Facebook and Twitter without factoring in the vital externalities I mentioned.

And, this is coming from someone who (mostly) despises Facebook, BTW.

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wait, everyone is still on FB? I thought the latest trend was that FB was dying? man, I can’t keep up!!

The real names policy is what kept me off Google+, and I am aware that they backed off of it. What they never did was publicly apologize for saying that if you can’t use your real name then it just isn’t for you. That was right in the middle of a firestorm about forcing real names on people with abusive ex-spouses, transgender people who haven’t acquired a legal status for their new name and everyone from teachers to lawyers have very valid reasons to not use their real names. I’ll give them a pass on dissidents in Syria since they rightly, if callously, point out that their governments will snoop on them through their ISPs anyway.

“The real names policy is what did it for me too.” is not “inaccurate information.” That kept some of us off even though it was later reversed. We decided from that policy (and moreso from the approach Google took to criticisms of it) that this was something we didn’t want anything to do with.

Okay, fine, but 100 millions users is not a ghost town. I know that in business analysis everyone is only ever concerned about growth, but you are trying to tell someone that a platform is unused when it was really useful for them.

Also, the analysis you are doing is hardly rock solid. If this were then tenth time one of the world’s most well known tech companies launches a social media venture to attempt to cut into facebook’s near monopoly on the “ordinary people” market then we might be in a place to make some pretty good comments about how it did relative to others. It isn’t, though. You are talking like having virtually every one of their potential customers already using two competitor’s services was helpful to them. That doesn’t seem like a fair assumption.

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Google + is terrible and also they stole design ideas from me. Facebook is terrible. Twitter is terrible. I have yet to come across a social networking thing that isn’t terrible. I don’t care about any of them.

Really? Tell that to Salman Rushdie.

No kidding. Remember the rush to get an invite? It would have been a lot more effective to let everyone jump on with their friends. Instead they wanted you to already be committed enough to sign up for a product you’ve never used, so you can get an invite to a social network that none of your friends are on. I have a Google+ account. Two of my friends do. I have more than two friends. Do the math.

Actually what bothers me about all of this is people laying blame at the feet of real-name rules and forced integration. The vast majority of social media users are not privacy-savvy. They’re too busy exchanging cow-pies and sending each other Candy Crush Crap. The real lesson here is one about critical mass. I’m not sure what bothers me more: The idea that Google cannot wrest from Facebook the prized position of preeminent social networking site. Or that it could, but has not been competent enough in terms of marketing strategy to do so.

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I think it can be both.

It was unrealistic to think that everyone would just drop Facebook and jump on Google+ for sure. But there were communities that were pretty excited about the idea of Facebook-except-its-not-Facebook. Starting off with those people might have been a good start.

Right away, though, we saw that Google+ was Facebook-except-its-…-oh-wait-its-just-Facebook. They might as well have put Zuckerberg in charge of it. People who thought that Google felt less sinister than Facebook rapidly started feeling that they were just as sinister.

I don’t have a good reason to believe that many other people felt the way I did, but it can’t be a good thing that they started off by alienating people and forcing things on people. To me, that will always be part of the story. There was never room for Facebook 2, but there might have been room for Facebook and Not Facebook.

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There might be a company that we could trust to build a “Facebook, except it doesn’t spy on you”, but it’s definitely not Google.

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This is true, for most things. There’s still a few things that you can’t hide completely (the current banner photo, or whatever the heck FB calls it, is one of those things. But I think they’ve finally set it so that you can hide the other banner photos in the gallery). Also, I was super annoyed when they took out the ability to hide yourself completely from searches. But I still use it, because everybody I know uses it (and NOBODY uses G+). I like some of the G+ photo stuff though, it’s a shame that nobody I know has any interest in it.

In the latest Android update, you click on the 3 horizontal lines, then scroll down to the “Feeds” section and choose “Most Recent”. I don’t think they’ve updated the Apple app yet, but if memory serves you had to “pull” down when you were in the newsfeed view (as if refreshing), and then choose the sort method. That is one of my huge pet peeves, that Facebook keeps trying to force the “Top Stories” newsfeed on me as the default. I really don’t give a shit, Facebook, about what awesome thing from 3 days ago you think I might be interested in. I just want to see my friends’ and family’s most recent posts.

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If this were then tenth time one of the world’s most well known tech companies launches a social media venture to attempt to cut into facebook’s near monopoly on the “ordinary people” market then we might be in a place to make some pretty good comments about how it did relative to others. It isn’t, though.

I think you’re confused and you’re missing my points. I’m not the one who thinks comparing Google+ growth to Facebook and Twitter is a good idea. The people doing that is Google’s public relations and those that parrot that over-simplistic PR drivel.

My point is that it’s not a fair comparison for a multitude of valid reasons I’ve already given.

You are talking like having virtually every one of their potential customers already using two competitor’s services was helpful to them. That doesn’t seem like a fair assumption.

It’s called laying the groundwork and business analysis.

Have you ever noticed how after one fast food restaurant sets up in a location by itself, a bunch of others will follow suit in that area later after analyzing their progress, etc.? It’s a similar business concept.

I know that in business analysis everyone is only ever concerned about growth

Um, the post I was replying to was comparing growth with Facebook and Twitter, so please don’t lay that on me.

Showing that a growth comparison isn’t accurate without factoring in externalities doesn’t mean that I’m “only ever concerned about growth”. Actually, if you read my posts, my main concerns are business ethics when it comes to privacy and monopolistic business practices.

Like many others, I was fine with Google+ until they began using their monopolistic business practices to jam people into it unwillingly from other services along with threatening to shut down accounts who didn’t use their real names, etc. - Try to keep up.

Okay, fine, but 100 millions users is not a ghost town.

Everywhere I’ve seen the term “ghost town” used, it’s been a relative term compared to other more active social networks, it’s not literal terminology. Also, the user base has been wildly conflated in relation to Twitter and Facebook as I’ve proven.

Google+ isn’t the “Facebook destroys MySpace” story. It’s the “Google+ can’t properly challenge Facebook” story because Google squandered its opportunity with greedy missteps.

And, sorry, distorting the number of grassroots users by including YouTube, etc. is just putting lipstick on a pig.

but you are trying to tell someone that a platform is unused when it was really useful for them.

No one said it was completely unused nor useless for everyone. You’re misconstruing relative statements for literal ones.

Also, the analysis you are doing is hardly rock solid

Actually, it is. Google is well-documented at jamming YouTube users into Google+ growth numbers. Are you denying this rock solid reality?

Just as I stated, Google+ also started at a different time period than Facebook or Twitter. Do you not understand the ramifications of the time period factors I laid out?

Second Life has 36 million registered users, would you consider it a thriving online community or a ghost town?

I’m not confused, and I am responding to particular points you made. If you don’t think its important and you’d rather talk about Google’s shady attempt to push Google+ on everyone, then we don’t have to talk about it.

They are trying to say that Google+ did fine by making a comparison that can’t really be made. You appeared to be trying to counter that it did poorly by making a comparison that can’t really be made. I don’t think it is reasonable to say either based on that growth. If Google thinks it met their expectations then it met their expectations (not that I think it did, I realize that PR people don’t tell the truth).

If I went to a restaurant last week, I might want to try a different restaurant this week. Social networking doesn’t seem very analogous.

“Try to keep up?” This is what I said in the very post you are responding to:

If you are going to expect me to “keep up” with your point, you might notice that I am 100% supportive of it. I merely find the contention that Google+ should have expected faster growth than Facebook because it’s opponents already had a stranglehold on the market very unconvincing.

The name people seem to have settled for is the Hamburger Menu. I don’t get it.

What I also don’t get is why Facebook’s is on the right-hand side of the screen, when every other modern Android app that has one puts it on the left.

You know, where the old Facebook app had it…