This weapon pulls hard left as well as up. b/c it pulls so hard left & up is what most are accustomed to & expecting, it seems to practically pull only left until you are really, really accustomed to it You would need serious arms & shoulders to handle it for even a few rounds without a stock – & experience --.
Even if that girl had been able to somehow magically transfer all the force available from every fiber of her being into her arms & shoulders, she could not have controlled that weapon stock or no stock.
But hey, burgers & bullets, it’s just for fun, sure, let her try it… Gosh help us, I pray unto thee.
Add to that the natural inclination – when something you’re holding seems to be getting away from you – to grip more tightly; which in this case means keep squeezing the trigger.
We had a recipe in place for her to hold the trigger down until the magazine was empty or until the weapon actually ripped itself out of her hands.
I was raised surrounded by kool-aid slurping gun nuts.
Once I was old enough to opt out of hunting/target/shooting excursions with them I found myself at ranges where -smiling- was something you would refrain from doing until after all the weapons were down, or until you left the range altogether. I preferred it that way too.
An instructor should know where to stand to control the fire arm and assist the student in a way where he both has control and is in a safe area in an event the gun gets out of control of the user.
9 in most cases is too young for an inexperienced shooter to use full auto. At least in 9mm. While I am sure it has been done many times safely, I’d err on the side of caution and have them wait a few more years.
There are many videos on youtube where people are subjected, usually unwittingly, to firearms they can’t control or at least are not prepared for. Stop it. It’s not funny and in extreme cases it can be deadly.
I still don’t understand the intent of why this girl is learning how to fire a gun, why that gun was an Uzi (a gun that is solely designed to kill people) and why a private citizen has access to a fully automatic weapon.
I’m from northern Minnesota where animal hunting such as for deer and grouse is a way of life. The MN Department of Natural Resources requires that all hunters born after 1979 take a Hunter’s Safety course where one learns how to properly use a firearm. I took it when I was about 14 and after our multiople sessions of classroom learning, we shot bolt-action .22 rifles and there were multiple adults supervising - risk was greatly minimized. To me, this type of training for utility makes sense, learning how to fire a people-killer makes no sense to me.
There is actually Supreme Court precedence on strippers and the First Amendment. It’s an interesting case, but it’s difficult to pull anything much of it since the opinions went 3-1-1-4.
A lot of parents of kids born prior 1979 thought that was a great requirement and made their kids go through the safety classes before letting them go deer hunting. At least this is how it went down at my jr. high. It’s the sensible thing to do. Then again, Minnesotans are generally renowned for being sensible (let’s just not talk about what White Bear Lake sends to Washington, m’kay?).
While I agree with your penis-replacement/“freedom” theory, I am leery of making statements which are speculative and potentially offensive (even if true).
I think you own an automatic assault weapon because of a deep-seated sense of insecurity, and lack of self-esteem.
But I know that a gun kept in your home is far more likely to be used in an accident, criminal assault, homicide or suicide, than in self defense. (Ref)
If I insult someone it makes it a lot easier for them to dismiss me and dismiss the information I want to convey to them.
When speaking to someone who is against reforms to gun control, I want the best chance possible to plant that seed of doubt.
[quote=“colinInSpace, post:75, topic:39895”]
I think you own an automatic assault weapon because of a deep-seated sense of insecurity, and lack of self-esteem.[/quote]
Generally, because of their cost to own and feed, they are owned by rich people who get a kick out of it and it’s fun. Like you would with a sports car or fast street bike. For more than one reason, it’s inadvisable to own one for defense.
I’ll have to read your reference later, but I can say with some certainty that no you do not “know” this. Statistics when guns are used for defense aren’t well kept. There isn’t a database of times guns are used for defense kept by the FBI like there are for murders. There are also many cases where guns are used for defense, simply brandished, and the threat leaves, often times not even resulting in a police report. Or even if shots are fired and the suspect flees and a report is filed, there is no central agency tracking this - much like the lack of tracking how often cops use lethal force.
So yeah, the hard numbers aren’t there, but I’ve read a lot of anecdotal data that make me fairly confident that it happens a lot.
Accidents do happen, but they are a small fraction of guns deaths.
Based on what I can find about “Bullets and Burgers” (now that their hosting account appears to have been suspended), it looks like this wasn’t even a legitimate firearms instruction course. More like a simple “HAY YOU GUYS COME HERE AND SHOOT SOME BIG GUNS! WOOOOO!” kind of deal. I have a hard time imagining that even gun rights activists would defend this place and their clearly irresponsible antics.
I used the word ‘know’ instead of ‘there is a growing amount of compelling evidence to support that’ because it was more succinct on the page.
The study I site is old, but the evidence is far from anecdotal. If you look at for instance testimony to congress on gun control, you will find that anecdotes are used in much greater volume by those against gun control. What little research is available pretty damningly demonstrates that the dangers of gun ownership are outweighed by the potential harm. The various efforts to empirically measure the impact of gun ownership (imperfect though they may be) in large part all support the notion gun control can reduce violence (accidental or otherwise).
Gun lobbying groups in the USA have spent the past 2 decades systematically dismantling any resources aimed at studying gun violence. So unfortunately it’s hard to get much up to date information. (Ref)
Perhaps I don’t ‘know’ for certain, but there is reason to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that keeping a gun in the home is not a great idea.
I expected the comments be full of comments from people with pretty much zero knowledge of the subject who feel 100% justified in declaring the the rights of tens of millions should be curtailed because of an accident whose circumstances don’t even approach the level of statistical noise and I was not disappointed. Contrary to what seems to be a popular belief there is no aspect of the Uzi manual of arms that involves the use of penises regardless of their size, and the vast majority of Title II firearms owners are not mouthbreathing troglodytes looking for a thrill. I guess it’s easy to demonize people you don’t know I guess by conflating them all with whatever extreme examples you’ve been alerted to, which are likely mostly fictional composites of the worst traits imaginable anyway.
First as a certified range officer (RO) and trainer who actually works with automatic weapons I take the subject VERY seriously (I also read NTSB and OSHA accident reports for fun and am a safety wonk.) Watching the video of this incident, the range officer took a very poor position to assist the girl in shooting regardless of what firearm was being used. Standing off to the left and parallel to the shooter means that in order to support her shoulder he had the do so with his right arm across her back and his hand on her shoulder which only presents very poor leverage. It also means that in order to get a hand in to help control the gun his left hand must cross not only his body but hers to get to the firearm, in a situation where tenths of a second count that’s unacceptable. Even worse, it appears she must have been having trouble with the weight of the gun because he “teacupped” the bottom of the magazine with his left hand which is why the gun pivoted and hit him rather than coming straight up and possibly killing the shooter like the 2008 incident in Massachusetts. In both incidents the shooter had to take a stance quartered on the gun rather than the preferred squared off isosceles stance likely due to the stock being too long for their stature. This places the shoulder at an angle and does not form a “pocket” for the stock to anchor in, and also does not allow the shooter to cant their upper body slightly forward to help with the recoil impulse. In both cases you can see the stock slide off the shoulder likely because the shooter did not (or was not capable) of countering the recoil causing the stock to “bounce” off the shoulder which happens much more easily if one is standing at an angle rather than squared off (a quartered stance is fine for manually operated and semiauto firearms, it is not a good idea with unmounted full auto guns.)
The positioning I use is to stand behind and slightly to the right of the shooter with my left hand on their shoulder. This position gives me very good leverage to maintain the shooter’s stance with my left hand or even using my entire body by moving slightly forward. My right hand (I wear heat resistant Kevlar gloves) is positioned at what is referred to as “high ready” which would probably be about 18 inches from the gun at the edge of the shooter’s peripheral vision. This positioning allows me to constantly monitor their trigger finger to make sure it is NOT on the trigger at any time except when they are ready to fire.
As for the use of an Uzi, I’d recommend against it. The grip on the Uzi is fairly large and chunky even if you have somewhat large hands like mine and in order to activate the grip safety you must squeeze the grip pretty firmly, which also tends to make one’s trigger finger curl also. Sadly, while the grip safety SEEMED like a good idea when it was first introduced, the innate instinct if something unexpected happens to the gun while shooting is to clench rather than release so it really doesn’t have much practical application as a safety feature. When dealing with smaller statured persons the non-adjustable stock on the Uzi is generally too long and prevents them from adopting the correct isosceles stance. If they still wanted to shoot the Uzi, they would do so with my body tight against theirs and my hand completely controlling the forward end either hand over hand or with their hand gripping the magazine instead so that they could stand correctly. In any case they would then fire about ten shots on semi, then they would have several magazines with only five rounds loaded to practice trigger control. Only when they could show me that they can reliably fire two to three round bursts on full auto would they get a full magazine to fire.
For a girl her size with no experience I would rather see them shoot a 22LR conversion. It’s just as much fun with almost no felt recoil impulse. At our biannual machine gun shoot here in PA coming up (don’t ask, it’s not really a “private” shoot but we do not advertise and we do not put the date out other than controlled word of mouth) soon we usually have a full auto AR in 22LR mounted on a tripod to let kids shoot. They don’t have to support the weight of the gun, they can’t point it in an unsafe direction, and we have a VERY experienced instructor attending to them at all times. If they have some experience we also sometimes have them shoot Sten, MP5, or MP-40 subguns which have MUCH lower rates of fire (~500 round per minute compared to ~900 for the Uzi) and are far more controllable than smaller third generation open bolt guns like the Uzi and MAC-10.
Not expecting any converts but just felt that the view of somebody who actually knows what they’re talking about would be refreshing in this thread.
And by “be full of…” you mean “to contain a minority of…” By far the comment representative of this thread is “What a fucking stupid way for an idiot to kill himself, and how cruel to the child he made a part of his death.”
Also, tasteless jokes and generic talking points. But, you know: the internet.
I was really surprised when I googled snippets from this lengthy comment referencing absolutely nothing specific from this thread and it didn’t return any results.
