maybe life sucks more
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Objectively, it sucks less for more people more than any other time in history. We still have stresses and problems, but not nearly as bad as just 100 years ago.
I’d rather we make euthanasia a real medical option. Something like ALS - there is no going back with that. I know two people who withered away and died from it. I’d rather pick a day to go and be “put down” than get to the point I can’t clean up my own shit or feed myself. But this is typically a different issue than most suicides which is usually a long term solution to short term problems.
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One source (there are many to choose from):
One reason why it is discouraged for lay people to opine about mental illness is that most of what we think we know about it is not just wrong, it’s the opposite of the truth.
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I don’t trust the government to administer such a program.
Obviously something as simple as a waiting period can’t solve the entire problem of suicide. It is, on a fundamental level, a requirement that the suffering person recognize that they’re in crisis and accept or seek help–preventing them from acting on that initial crisis impulse gives them the chance to do so.
A personal example: I’m one of the people with chronic depression who has had a suicide “plan” for years, not in the “I’m going to do this on X date” sense, but in a “if I ever felt I really had to do it, this is how I would.” It does not involve a gun, but it involves enough time and steps and risk of being embarrassingly caught in the act for it to be kind of onerous. I also have access to mental health care and a functional support system, and while I may have regular thoughts of “aw man, if I were dead, I wouldn’t have to deal with this bullshit” (which is technically considered suicidal ideation), the work involved in ending things with assured finality is always more than it’s worth at the time.
But on the spontaneity end, a couple years ago I was working a terrible job for an abusive boss, and one (perfectly average) day on my commute home I had an incredibly visceral, intrusive fantasy of how satisfying it would be to buy a gun, walk into the office, and shoot myself in front of her and my coworkers–it would both let me escape the situation and maybe return to them a quarter of the emotional agony they were inflicting on me. I had never had a thought like that before in my life. It was like I wasn’t myself. The overpowering desire that accompanied the fantasy–I even started thinking “hypothetically” about where I could get a gun locally–was sufficiently frightening to make me aware that I should never, under any circumstances, have free access to any kind of firearm, ever. It was also a signal that I needed to bust my ass to get out of that job ASAP, and my mental state improved by leaps and bounds even being unemployed (I was ultimately laid off before I could find something new).
I’m sorry about your friend. I wish the factors at play could have aligned in a way to save him.
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Who said anything about that?
They were asked: “How much time passed between the time you decided to complete suicide and when you actually attempted suicide?”
It makes sense the carry through with the specific act is fairly short. But what about the time between first suicidal thought and then an attempt. The people I know personally who have been touched by suicide/attempts all came with years of struggle with depression, alcoholism, or other issues. That isn’t to say there aren’t completely impulsive “never thought about it before today” suicides. But in my limited experience they aren’t the norm. I guess when I get some time I will do some googling to see if reality matches that perception.
The TL:DR from the Harvard article is that 75% of people who attempt suicide have the impulse and either act on it or “get over it” within an hour. It breaks out as ~25% within 5 minutes, the next 25% within 20-30 minutes, and the next 25% within the hour.
There is a difference between depression and suicide. Depression is a chronic condition. Suicidal impulses are just that - an impulse. Impulses pass, and so the best prevention for suicide is time between the impulse and the ability to act on it. It’s why people are more likely to act on the impulse when alone. It’s why most people who have a suicidal impulse stop before they act.
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I hate that phrase because it’s wrong and belittles the struggle people are going through.
Depression is not a short-term problem. It’s hard, and for a lot of people, reprieves are either part-way or temporary. You don’t get over it. You can manage it, but for most people it’s like diabetes: a lifelong condition you have to consciously stay on top of. Furthermore, most people don’t even know it when they experience it or see it. I guarantee you that everyone on this forum has either experienced it or has someone in their life who has, whether diagnosed or not. Just because you don’t think you know someone with it, doesn’t mean you don’t.
And the suicide-trigger can absolutely be spur-of-the-moment, which is why not having the means readily available can prevent it. If you don’t think teenagers can hide their depression, you might want to think again. And in the US, it’s very easy for them to get a gun. Easiest is if it’s already in the house.
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I agree completely. But I also think that’s a seperate discussion to one about the availability of guns.
(Edited to acknowledge I responded to your first comment, while your later comments make similar points.)
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But people don’t make decisions based on objective data, but their subjective experience. And a lot of that is relative comparisons of things. And a lot of Americans are doing relatively worse than they did earlier in their lifetime, or compared to the previous generation.
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Do you care about death, or guns? The issue is the hellscape we’ve created, driving a rapidly increasing suicide rate https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ and yes, some of those people used guns. A UC Davis study showed that making California’s gun laws stricter didn’t help suicide or homicide https://health.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/13362
We need to make the USA a less awful place if you’re not rich. Universal health care, and universal basic income would be some good places to start.
Your link is from people who care about guns not death, they didn’t point out that guns are far from a majority of suicides, for example, so even if we eliminated them, and those people didn’t find another way to die, it would only put a modest dent in the overall stat.
And yet, from the write-up:
Wintemute notes that the quality and completeness of the records upon which background checks are completed has improved significantly since 2000 and studies of the more rigorous permit-to-purchase laws show a clear benefit on reducing firearm mortality by as much as 40 percent for homicides and 16 percent for suicides.
Importantly, the Connecticut and Missouri statutes associated with beneficial effects on firearm violence incorporated a permit-to-purchase provision. Permit-to-purchase laws require prospective purchasers to obtain a permit from a law enforcement agency, and complete a background check. Straw buyers or others with criminal intent may be less willing to risk law enforcement scrutiny.
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As some one who suffered from (is still?) fair point and I agree. But suicide isn’t always from depression. And not all people who have depression are suicidal (I don’t think I was ever suicidal. Besides that would have taken more effort than I was capable of at one point.)
That comments is aimed more an people who commit suicide over a break up, lost job, exposed secret, death of loved one, etc. Though that can be compounded by depression, but not always.
Another fair point. So what is “relatively worse” now? Is it because we only work 40hrs a week instead of 60-80 for less pay that we got time to get down on ourselves? Is it our new inter-connectivity where we are able to peek into other’s lives more (or their outward appearance) and compare ourselves more, leading to feeling worse?
FYI - in Missouri, at least, that permit to purchase a handgun from the Sheriff law was a hold over from the Jim Crow laws. Gotta make sure the right people are buying handguns. They still have to go through NICS checks.
I have to agree with this. Three suicides within one degree of separation in my family, yet I never have felt the urge to despite chronic depression.
Alternatively, the paint shop guy out of Gainesville, FL that myself and dozens of other cheated customers could never get legal satisfaction from finally was discovered to be embezzling from the family company by his accountant significant other, so on impulse he shot her and drove home and committed suicide.
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Yeesh… that’s awful. It’s like the end of Shawshank Redemption when everything comes crashing around them. I wonder how many of those make up the percentage of suicides, though.
This is one of my biggest fears in life–my kids hurting and hiding it from me.
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No, not all depressed people are suicidal. But if you think your examples of “non-depression” suicide aren’t linked to depression, you’re missing two salient facts.
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As I said, nobody knows what’s going on in someone else’s head. You don’t know what accumulated pressures have led to that act, you’re only seeing the ultimate trigger. Trust me, had I succeeded, people would have said it was for an incredibly stupid reason. You would have written me off as “non-depressed” whereas I can assure you, I was (and am still) supremely fucked up depression-wise, and had been for a while.
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There is a profound difference between chronic depression and an acute depressive crisis.
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Despite what Skinner would have you believe, humans are not simple behaviour reactionists. Different people respond differently to different stimuli. I am very happy for you that your brain has never reacted in such a way. But it’s like anaphylaxis: just because you have never experienced it, doesn’t mean no one has. And even if you have, the severity can vary. So can the responses and outcomes.
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