Guns stay locked up in San Francisco

[anon27007144]

We have electrical codes that require properly grounded circuit panels. Why not have building codes that require lockable storage for things like drano, oxycontin, firearms, etc.?

This debate reaches farther than just accidental gun deaths.

[Mister44]

I think non-grounded wiring is inherently more dangerous than grounded wiring. Makes sense to make that mandatory, especially since people aren’t typically doing their own wiring, they buy the hosue with the assumption it is properly built.

Guns, drano, pills are inanimate objects who can’t hurt anyone just sitting there. They have to be misused (on purpose or accident). Say you’re 60 years old, live alone, with arthritis. Your pain meds might be in a big bottle with out a child cap because you don’t need it. But if you’re in a family with little kids everywhere, then it would be good to keep them in child proof containers and out of reach. If you are a family with teenagers you may need to hide, lock up. or keep your pills on your person in case your kids find and abuse them.

[MikeTheBard]

@anon27007144

The NRA could should be the loudest voice in the room calling for gun owners to behave responsibly and lock up their guns. If they did that, we might not need laws like this.

FTFY.

I’m a big proponent of gun rights- But rights come with responsibility, and safe storage is kind of the top of that particular list.

[dan7000]

@Mister44

forgive me for not wanting the government to tell me what I can or can’t do in my home.

I don’t think that’s happening at all here. As I said, you can, and most likely do, live in the 99.99% of the country where this law does not apply. I prefer to live where it does apply. Why do you want to force your personal preference on my community?

[Mister44]

I’m not forcing anything. Have you not ever had a discussion with someone with a different opinion?

[stinkinbadgers]

@dan7000

Do you live in San Francisco? Do you believe in democracy?

The problem with this line of reasoning is that the Bill of Rights and constitutionally protected rights are not supposed to be up to locals. I think we would all have a problem with Texas deciding that the first amendment doesn’t apply to speech advocating tolerance of homosexuality, or New York City deciding that the 4th amendment doesn’t apply to minorities walking around Manhattan. The bill of rights is not supposed to be up for experiments in federalism. Love it or hate it, D.C. vs. Heller settled that requiring trigger locks violates the second amendment. Love or hate gun rights, it should bother everyone that the court is not applying the bill of rights the same across all court jurisdictions.

[anon27007144]

Are you against securing firearms, or are you against a law saying you have to do so?

I’m trying to understand if you’re against responsible firearm ownership, or if you’re coming at this from a civil rights perspective.

[anon73629133]

@Mister44

In general I don’t like laws like this - which includes seat belt laws,

CDC sez:

• “Seat belt use in 2010 was 89% in states with primary enforcement laws but only 80% in states with secondary enforcement laws or no seat belt laws.”
• “Seat belts reduce serious crash-related injuries and deaths by about half.”

What don’t you like about getting 9% more people to increase their chances of survival by 50%?

Consider seatbelt fees a penalty tax paid only by those too incompetent to follow basic safety instruction on their own.

[daneel]

@funruly

What don’t you like about getting 9% more people to increase their chances of survival by 50%?

What are you, some kind of Marxist?

[anon68952647]

@ACE

a “directory of wonderful things”?

perplexed is a form of wonder, and you are full of it.

[anon27007144]

So this seems to be the Police Code in question:

San Francisco Police Code section 4512 provides that
“[n]o person shall keep a handgun within a residence owned
or controlled by that person unless” (1) “the handgun is stored
in a locked container or disabled with a trigger lock that has
been approved by the California Department of Justice,” or
(2) “[t]he handgun is carried on the person of an individual
over the age of 18.”1 S.F., Cal., Police Code art. 45,
§ 4512(a), (c)(1). Violations of section 4512 are punishable
by a fine of up to $1,000 and up to six months in prison.

This seems like a good common sense practice, but how can they enforce it as a law? Is there a point to unenforceable laws?

[Mister44]

I’m against a law for it. I think everyone should take proper precautions to store their firearms, flammables, drugs, poisonous chemicals, sex toys etc in a responsible manner.

@anon27007144

This seems like a good common sense practice, but how can they enforce it as a law? Is there a point to unenforceable laws?

It is one of those laws enforced when something bad happens. Sort of tacking on the offenses, which they do with the War on Drugs. Several states will tack on more penalties because your drug stash didn’t have the proper tax stamp on them.

[Mister44]

Stupid should hurt…

[stinkinbadgers]

@anon27007144

Is there a point to unenforceable laws?

Short answer: no. Long answer: also no.

[anon37332521]

@Mister44

Stupid should hurt…

Doesn’t it depend on who it hurts? When seat belt laws were being discussed in the past I heard several people make the statement that if they chose to not wear one, that was their decision and why should it matter to anyone else. I don’t know about you but I’d prefer the pilot of a 1 ton plus vehicle stay in control of it as long as possible when things go sideways.

[enso]

@Mister44

While guns require proper precautions, they have many other uses other than killing and injuring humans. You probably only see guns used on TV and the movies, so your view on their use is mainly grounded on fantasy and misuse. Millions use their guns for sport and recreation with out hurting anyone.

Well, I grew up shooting and was given my first rifle for my 7th birthday.

So, tell me, what purpose does a 9mm pistol have (for example) beyond killing and injuring humans? Got a lot of wildlife where you’re from that you’d take down with a small pistol? Feral dog packs a problem where you live but you only want to get them when they’re up close so you don’t use a rifle or a shotgun?

[enso]

@stinkinbadgers

The problem with this line of reasoning is that the Bill of Rights and constitutionally protected rights are not supposed to be up to locals.

I’m not sure how saying “When you’re storing your guns in your harm in our city, you must put them in a gun safe” violates the Bill of Rights. Do tell.

[Mister44]

@albill

So, tell me, what purpose does a 9mm pistol have (for example) beyond killing and injuring humans? Got a lot of wildlife where you’re from that you’d take down with a small pistol? Feral dog packs a problem where you live but you only want to get them when they’re up close so you don’t use a rifle or a shotgun?

There are a plethora of shooting sports that the 9mm is used in. From Bullseye, to steel plate, to USPSA/IPSC, to informal target shooting. And some people do use them to hunt. Jerry Miculek shoots balloons at 1000 yards with them.

Again, it is a hunk of metal. It has no soul, not predestined fate. It’s use is what one can find to use it for.

WORLD RECORD 1000 yard shot with a 9mm Hand Gun! | S&W 929 by Jerry Miculek

[anon37332521]

While I agree with you on the “it’s just a tool” statement, as pitchforks, torches, and even a rolled up piece of paper can be misused, does it not make sense for a city to have some regulations on storage of firearms?

[enso]

@Mister44

There are a plethora of shooting sports that the 9mm is used in. From Bullseye, to steel plate, to USPSA/IPSC, to informal target shooting. And some people do use them to hunt. Jerry Miculek shoots balloons at 1000 yards with them.

Again, it is a hunk of metal. It has no soul, not predestined fate. It’s use is what one can find to use it for.

So the fact that you can use a pistol for sport makes it the primary purpose of said firearm enough that you object when people characterize them as being meant to kill or injure humans? You do realize that the vast majority of pistols that the general populace sees are on the hips of law enforcement and law enforcement doesn’t carry them for a little sport shooting after work?

So, no, I don’t buy your idea that it is some kind of misstatement to say that the primary purpose of a pistol is to kill or injure humans (and the latter, really, only if you’re incompetent at the former). I grew up shooting from a family of shooters. Let’s not play bullshit.

Guns should be locked up, at home, if there is any chance that children will encounter them. I’ve personally known people who had someone do dumbass things with pistols as children. It isn’t some kind of “OMG, they’re coming fer mah gunz!” infringement to say, “Hey, when at rest in your home, you need to store these things safely.” I don’t think the black helicopters are going to come next.

Update: In fact, if you reflect on it, humanity didn’t even develop pistols for any purpose other than killing other humans. Think of the historic development and use. You can argue for the “not just for killin’ folks” virtues of longarms but for pistols, it just ain’t so.