Where exactly did I claim that?
Nobody is forcing anyone at, say, gunpoint. But thereâs an awful lot of people saying, âyou canât get a good job unless you go to collegeâ. These days, itâs even morphing into âyou canât get any job unless you go to collegeâ. Thatâs a pretty big economic threat right there.
2 Likes
This thread has covered this exact question a few timesâŚ
I roll NJ Transit, not Amtrak. Amtrak is an expensive shitshow. I pay less per trip than you do to buy a cup of coffee.
1 Like
One of the finest trains Iâve ever puked on. 
Youâve had this explained by a bunch of people multiple times. Are you two thick to read what they said previously?
Youâre taking out loans because you must go to college if you want a white collar job something like 98% of the time. Otherwise, youâre working at McDonaldâs or some other service job for a wage that canât even get you an apartment in America, if you can even get a job. Do you get it now, college grad? You think without your degree, youâd have a good job?
3 Likes
Well, you claim that we shouldnât be giving people free college, right? So how much of a public education is permissible to you at taxpayerâs expense? Is grade school ok? Youâre good with high school? What makes it ok to say â12 years as a citizen is deserved and free but anything more is you freeloadingâ? Do tell.
1 Like
Oh, we should all be either writers or plumbers? So, youâre saying there are, oh, 30 million or 40 million of these solid, decent paying jobs to go around (to pretend, for a moment, that writers actually make a living wage, by and large, which isnât true)?
You really think we can be a nation of carpenters, plumbers, and other high paying working class jobs? Did you miss the last 40 years? (Oh, actually, you did because youâre, what, 25, right?) Those jobs, as a massive part of the economy, havenât existed in decades. They went overseas except for the ones, like your local plumber, that it is impossible to outsource.
3 Likes
And itâs been answered a few times as well.
1 Like
Itâs even more insidious than that â I read what they said, and I disagreed.
âSociety made me do itâ? Nah, not buying it. Certainly not as an excuse to refuse to pay back money you borrowed.
Are you too thick to see how simple this question is?
Thatâs an interesting word you have for ignored.
You never answered my question to you about keeping your word to a feudal lord. Care to try now or are you going to keep ignoring inconvenient questions that you have no answer to?
Iâm still waiting for your answer on how much free schooling you think is permissible to our citizens at government expense and why. I assume you think the requisite 12 years are acceptable but no more. I donât really know since, despite being asked more than once, you keep refusing to answer the question.
Are you too simple to see how thick the reality of this question actually is?
Youâve lost any credibility when arguing morality since you advocated for the absolution of people who knowingly cheat others. Taking advantage of others who are coerced, whether or not youâre the direct source of the coercion, is immoral. But apparently only the poor can be immoral in your eyes. When the wealthy take advantage of the poor, thatâs just business, right?
1 Like
To be fair, if he admitted this position, heâd have to admit he got screwed too and that heâs willing to allow it. After all, he admitted he was too ignorant to find non-loan ways to pay for his own schooling and heâs now indentured to paying back all that money as well. Since most people arenât willing to admit that they might have been idiots, he has to double-down on backing the system.
1 Like
The people offering loans didnât cheat anyone. The said they would provide money, and they provided it.
The people who refuse to pay back money they promised to pay back are the ones âwho knowingly cheat others.â
This is why I donât respond to 90 percent of your furious nonsense: your questions are so absurd I sometimes worry youâre some kind of parody account.
Youâre the one going on, repeatedly, about how if you give your word, even in an unfair system, that you are beholden to keep it. I gave you a silly and extreme example that any rational person would look to and say âWell, no, you donât have to keep your word there.â You? You just ignore the question because it refutes your point.
It sounds like you never spent your education dollars on a philosophy class during your undergraduate degree. You know, those classes where they posit silly questions that make no sense in order to debate a point of logic or to explore the extent of the meaning of a statement or idea?
No, just because 18 year old you made a promise to sell yourself into slavery without understanding the consequences or life circumstances does not mean 36 year old you (to double the age) is forever honor bound to keep it. You may choose to do so because you donât like the consequences of failing to honor the promise but it doesnât make everyone who makes a different decision somehow an immoral thief.
Youâre not winning any arguments with anyone here.
Iâm sorry you got jacked by taking on those loans for your education. That doesnât mean everyone else has to make the same decisions if theyâre in the same situation.
P.S. So how much education are our citizens allowed at the taxpayerâs expense. Please do tell us what you think is allowed and no more.
2 Likes
If a black teenager gives his word to a white cop, is he honor bound to keep it because he gave his word? What if the cop has his gun drawn?
Bankers are different in your world, I get it, even if they design programs to prey on our children (well, at least mine since sheâs in college) for their own profit.
Yeah, fuck them and John Galt.
Itâs fine, nuanced positions like these that make it such a pleasure to debate âpoints of logicâ with you, @albill.
I suppose I have to give you a pass on thinking the situation is that simple since your own ignorance has been the basis of your argument from the beginning. At least youâre consistent.
Tell me, why is student loan debt, even private student loan debt, not often able to be discharged in bankruptcy?
Tell me, why student loan lenders are able to lend money without credit risk?
Tell me, why are lenders like Nelnet settling lawsuits that contend that they are bilking students and the government?
Itâs because the system is corrupt. Itâs because those with the capital to lend also have capital to lobby, to influence, to enrich the lawmakers who might otherwise be regulating them.
Your oversimplified perception of the loan process exists in a vacuum with only two participants, which probably never reflects reality. The lender isnât some guy with some extra cash lying around who just wants to help a student out. Before the would-be student even looks at the non-negotiable loan terms, the lender has already been involved in gaming the system in his favor, and as John Oliver has pointed out, Uncle Sam is his willing accomplice.
Even if the lenders werenât involved in gaming the system, there are still moral implications just for taking advantage of someone. If you willingly sold salt water to a dehydrated man while knowing full well that it wonât help him and that heâs ignorant that it wonât help him, youâre not an innocent vendor making an honest profit, youâre an opportunist looking to take advantage of someone. Just because nobody âforcedâ the dehydrated man to buy water from you doesnât absolve you of your wrongdoing. The immorality of not paying back a burdensome student loan is significantly less than the immorality of taking advantage of millions of people (much less apparently brainwashing them into thinking they brought it on themselves to the point that they vehemently argue for your sake on the internet).
2 Likes
If you bothered to respond to the questions, I wouldnât have to keep repeating myself. Besides, you donât âdebate,â you just throw rhetoric out and ignore any questions. I wish you spent half as much time actually answering questions as you just did to go cherry pick quotes from a bunch of postings. Youâre clearly willing to invest your time in this, just not in any way that actually debates anything.
So, how much education is allowable for a citizen at taxpayer expense? If you bother to answer this, can you explain your reasoning as to why, whatever your answer may be? Is it the 12 years we currently get in the USA? Is it less? Is it more? Why? What makes that the âcorrectâ amount? This has direct bearing on the whole questioning of how and why we charge people for college, especially when college is largely necessary to get any kind of middle class job in America.
(Who am I kidding? You canât answer this.)
2 Likes
