How and why to default on your student loan

Replace “could” with “do” and pat yourself on the back for finding reality.

Simple answers to complex problems never, ever, fix the problem. No one should be obligated to ruin their lives financially because of a broken institution that benefits a few at a rigged cost to the many. Supporting a faulty system when it damages you and where supporting it can damage others is immoral.

Here’s a not-false equivalency for your conundrum. Feudalism. According to that system, you’re fucked because you should be and you can’t expect better because you’re fucked. Those systems weren’t corrected by everyone just agreeing to be fucked because divine right. Those systems were replaced with marginally better ones by people refusing to be fucked by the broken system.

And yes, the student loan system is fucked up and fucking people over. Compliance harms all but the privileged who mayn’t have even necessarily needed the system but were told, cajoled and sucked in, deliberately, in a country that can afford to educate all of it’s people to whatever level an individual desires at no cost to the individual.

Another example. You were robbed at gunpoint (a large, complex gun called societal mores). The criminal is found out, authorities know where the criminal is and can lay hands on them. They ask, “Do you want to prosecute?” You answer, “Well, they did -ask- me to hand over my wallet… I suppose not.”

1 Like

Solon: Bandit King of Ancient Athens, apparently.

1 Like

Drugs?

You asked.

2 Likes

Just because I wasn’t aware of financial options that I now know were available doesn’t make me any less culpable for the loans I signed.

If you didn’t know of them then, how do you know you could have gotten them? You might not have qualified for them. You might have missed a deadline. You might have been beaten out for them by others who filed earlier. You might have gotten all you could, but it still wouldn’t be enough. You specifically said that there were ways of going to college without getting loan debt, but your own examples are false (paying as you go - unless you already have a decent job or you find the cheapest, unaccredited institution to get a “degree” from) or insufficient (based on your own claimed experiences with grants).

If you don’t want to take part in “a corrupt system,” don’t take out the loan. But if you take out a loan, you’ve agreed that you’re going to pay it back.

Yes, every 18 year old kid who’s been told since middle school that he has to get a college degree to go anywhere in life is fully aware of the corrupt system and all the other options available to him, like going back in time and being born to wealthier parents. He’s also fully informed of the fact that all the advice he gets from his parents and grandparents on the matter is irrelevant because each graduating class has been graduating with more debt than the previous one for a while now. And once you start to get in debt, you might as well get into more debt and finish the degree because incurring the debt without finishing is even worse.

You’re one flag-planting on the moral high ground away from a just world fallacy.

So why not default? If it’s not immoral, why not simply refuse to pay it?

I don’t default because there are practical consequences. Morality has nothing to do with it (though I do feel as if I bear some guilt for perpetuating the corrupt system, but I consider it less immoral than being a financial burden on my family because I can’t get a decent job, despite the fact that my unrelated degree qualified me for an interview for the job that I could have done with the skills I had before going to college). The cliche middle class house of cards could crumble if you default. There goes your marriage and your mortgage and your retirement savings.

Impoverishment is one thing, if someone simply cannot pay back the money; Lee Siegel and others in this thread are arguing in favor of the other thing, of purposefully defaulting, even though they could theoretically pay. That is simply wrong.

Unless theoretically means definitely could without a significant negative impact on one’s life, I would disagree with that statement. You’re acting like Siegel intentionally incurred debt in order to default. He’s saying that things were already difficult to begin with when he incurred the debt and he finally got to a point where he decided not to pay for Guy de Maupassant’s Necklace instead of ruining the rest of his life to try to do so. That seems practical to me.

Your approach means that no one should ever declare bankruptcy. Suddenly those who experience unforeseen tragedies are immoral? You’re also arbitrarily absolving those who have contributed to a system that is set up as a debt factory. Would you say that it’s morally correct to pay someone money that you bet them if you found out later that they rigged the game so that you would lose?

3 Likes

Yes, because no one forced you to play.

wow…

1 Like

I appreciate your honesty. Unfortunately, that’s the only part of your statement that I can respect.

You’ve gone into full on lawful stupid now.

4 Likes

Hey, at least you have a job. I assume it isn’t for minimum wage and you actually have a hope of paying off your debt someday? How do you feel about your debt and the value of the amount of your life you’ve traded away for your education? Was it worth it?

No, the middle class can absolutely afford that. The entry point for being middle class is around $150k a year.

Of course, we have a fuckton of poor people who seem to be under the impression they’re still middle class…

1 Like

This, exactly, is what I wish I had stated.

Welcome to McDonald’s. Can I take your order, please?

You’re almost certainly playing the college game because you want a life beyond being a service worker with no hope and not even enough income to build any safety net for yourself or (dare you dream) a family.

So, your choice is to embrace being a serf or to go for “higher education” since it is the gateway to almost all middle class jobs. In doing so, you, in your wisdom at age 18, think that a little debt is no big deal. Unfortunately, you at 22-25 realizes, “Oh fuck, even paying every month, I own more than my parents paid for their house and it will take me 20 years…if I can find that job.” Of course, you should have known that at 18 and you deserve to have this as the one debt that bankruptcy can never discharge. You can buy an expensive house, jewels, a fancy car, etc. and have that debt wiped clean, if necessary and if you’re willing to pay the price, but no no no, you can’t get out from under college loans. I guess 18 year old you should have just stuck to McDonald’s. What a fucking idiot he was.

In all seriousness, I’m 44 in a couple of months. I graduated more than 20 years ago now. I incurred no debt because my engineer grandfather paid my tuition and I lived at home (with him). I then got lucky to graduate right as the first Internet boom started. I came of age in a special time (and went to college in a recession with no jobs) so that I caught a boom that ran all through my 20s until I turned 30 or so. By then, I was well established in my career. That’s a fucking lottery that I won, right up there with having professional class family. Most people? They don’t win that kind of lottery. I have a lot of friends in the hacker scene 20 years younger than me. The lucky have managed to get tech jobs and are happy. Quite a few of their friends have no hope of work and are walking around with huge debt and no way to pay. I completely sympathize with them feeling they got screwed over and finding a way to walk away from it. Otherwise, what do they do? Live with their parents and work a shitty $10 an hour job and hope to someday pay for taking English 201 back in the day while dreaming of a better life? Fucking serfdom.

18 year old me was an idiot and if not for winning the lottery of being of the right generation with the right family in the right city, I’d have wound up with a shitload of debt too. It happened to friends of mine. Winning the lottery is not how a successful society functions.

6 Likes

The thing is, @goodpasture is right. It’s dishonest and morally wrong to agree to a contract, and then decide not to hold up your end.

That said, I think most of the people who agree to those contracts are coerced into doing so- Whether by the other party, or by outside forces. I don’t agree with the action, but I just can’t find it in me to have sympathy for the banks or the degree mills.

It’s like witnessing a hit and run, and then realizing the victim lying in the street is a wanted pedophile- You know that you should call an ambulance before he bleeds out, but the urge to just decide not to get involved…

1 Like

Or to put it another way, it’s wrong to kill someone, but if you’re in a war, it’s both necessary and forgivable.

One person defaulting on their loan is a crime. Everyone defaulting on their loans is a revolution.

Make of that what you will.

3 Likes

I’m pretty sure that that sort of situation, in the domain games of chance, is handled as fraud…

2 Likes

Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.

  • H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

How come colleges and universities cost so much more now than say 30 years ago?

How come banks can borrow money from the government for 0% interest and students cant?

How come we invaded Iraq?

How come you can’t declare bankruptcy to get relief from student loans?

4 Likes

One of things things is not like the other…

1 Like

Coercion is force.

Do you hold that if not physically forced or threatened with physical harm that anything a person does or has done to them is just?

A commendable trait in a 14th century peasant, according their masters.

5 Likes

Sorry about how that education worked out for you.

If you can’t see how these four things are related, you should probably look into debt forgiveness for your student loan or ask your alma mater for a refund.

Here’s some personal history for comparison purposes…

I graduated college more than 30 years ago. Relative to the current situation, I borrowed significantly less than what is now normal. I was able to work several jobs (totaling over 40 hours/week, plus killer hours during the summer) which paid at least minimum wage (about $3.15/hour) while going to school full time. The last two years, I slept 4 hours every other night. But I graduated in 4 years, with what would now be considered laughable amounts of debt, because that was actually possible back then. As a result of all the work hours during that last school year, I was unable to pay much attention to finding my first post-graduate job, so I accepted the first thing that came my way. When the loans started coming due, the monthly bill was 90% of my pay. I was able to pull that off because I exchanged renovation/handyman work for my room and board, and thus only had to pay for a public transportation monthly pass (to get to my real work). By the time I had finished paying off my school loans 10 years later, I was not yet in the middle class but had at least some sense I wasn’t behind the 8-ball at all times.

I graduated OVER 30 YEARS AGO. I have no idea how recent graduates are pulling it off. Their debt is 5-10x more than mine was, minimum wage hasn’t kept up with the cost of living, head-of-households in their 30s, 40s and 50s are taking the jobs that used to be for students, and there’s no such thing as job security in any industry. There is no foundation to stand on. We have made education out of reach for almost every young person in this country, starting with the public school system all the way through what should be the jewels in our crown. WTF?

5 Likes