“Starfarers” by Poul Anderson
2 Likes
Interesting and sensible solution, however i was half hoping for some adjustable platform that tracked Mecca.
Correct. This kind of thing is also used for when an observant Jew will go temporarily to someplace where days are MUCH longer or shorter like Alaska. You keep the calendar of wherever you were from during that time. If you move there then you have to adapt to the local calendar which can make for some very difficult adjustments for time based things like the Sabbath and Passover.
Some of the most interesting discussions I’ve had regarding kosher issues were with a pair of kashrut inspector orthodox rabbis who were both PHD holders, one in chemistry one in biochemistry. They travel around the world and work with the companies that develop food processing agents (flavors, preservatives, etc.) to determine if these agents can be used in production of kosher certified foods.
We are strictly forbidden from external proselytizing to outsiders. We do have a sort of internal proselytizing which you might see in big cities where some ultra orthodox guys stop people on the street and ask if they are Jewish and if the person says yes, they will try and get the person to don phylacteries or give them a set of Chanukah candles or the like.
1 Like
By the way, the Journal of Asian Studies published an article on this topic back in 2010: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7922679 . As Editor of the JAS, I was intrigued from the moment the piece arrived in my inbox.
There is something I find deeply puzzling about these efforts to adapt or re-interpret religious teachings in new contexts, such as low earth orbit.
There’s that famous quote from the first Cosmos episode: “The surface of the Earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. On this shore, we’ve learned most of what we know. Recently, we’ve waded a little way out, maybe ankle-deep, and the water seems inviting.”
Unless of course you feel obligated to honour certain traditions first assembled by people who hadn’t even got so much as a toe wet. If so, to you the water is not so much inviting as a constant source of irritation.
The troubling dilemmas thrown up by moving about 10^2 miles away from the surface of our planet, in a universe that is some 10^23 miles across, seem to demonstrate how absolutely tied to a parochial, medieval worldview these practices are.
Why don’t these collisions trigger wholesale epiphanies?
1 Like
Speaking as an atheist, BTW, not a religious person at all… BUT… I don’t think an appreciation of all that science has done for humanity is necessarily counter indicated with religion. While we tend to focus on literalists, there are plenty of the faithful who have no problem reconciling the two, even the darwinian model–Darwin hmself was an agnostic and was not an atheist and spent much of his life as a practicing unitarian. He’s not the only person of faith who contributed greatly to our understanding of the natural world. Don’t forget that for a few centuries, the most scientifically-minded place in the world was Baghdad.
Honestly, I think it’s a false dichotomy to say we have either/or here. Human beings have an amazing tendency to grasp onto things which make sense and shaping them to their own needs, while discarding that which does not help.
Are there interpretations of religion which pits the two world views (religious/secular) against each other - you bet. I’m against that, especially when it becomes a means of oppressing others, but I’d argue the same that led to the persecution of any group–religious or secular. However, secular does not have to mean anti-religious, and embracing that view that religion has no place in the modern world can be just as dangerous and destructive as religious fanaticism, especially if it leads us to view others as “less than”, just because they have a different epistemology than us.
We have to remember that religion can play a positive role in the world, even if the only examples we hear about are the negative ones. The classical civil rights movement was led by preachers, and I doubt any of us would argue that King’s use of the words of Jesus to argue for civil rights is a bad thing. Nor would we condemn those who argue for gay marriage on the basis of their religious conviction.
Nor is science wholly innocent in the world. Eugenics was once a fully respected science, and how much technological and scientific advancements have been used in wars. While the enlightenment certainly improved the world in numerous ways including the founding of new disciplines of knowledge and understanding so to, were these ideas used to justify brutal imperial practices in the guise of “civilization”.
Just my $.02. Take it as you will.
2 Likes
I don’t remember calling for anyone to be persecuted. Religiosity correlates with family background, and with lack of access to education, and therefore with poverty. Religiosity is often an expression or symptom of poverty. It spreads by targeting those with nothing else to live for. It can be an ugly sight when a roomful of people who are fortunate (in whatever way) gather to laugh at those less fortunate; this, sadly, is what atheists sometimes seem to be doing.
Also I am not talking about “an appreciation of all that science has done for humanity”, but about the discovery that one’s religious beliefs are founded on a clear misunderstanding.
Praying “toward” a certain location (along the geodesic on the surface of the same planet), or at certain times of day (where “day” is the rotational period of one planet, always gradually slowing), are not cosmically general enough to be instructions from the creator of the universe. They become inadequate instructions if you move out of a thin spherical shell around a single planet.
Similarly in Genesis it says day and night were created, then on the 4th day the sun was created, making it quite clear that the story was concocted by people who lacked a basic understanding of how the solar system is arranged. Whoever’s word it is, it ain’t God’s.
My question is merely: how does a person stop him or herself from realising this? It must take tremendous deliberate effort.
1 Like
That’s why you gotta have faith! If it made sense, it wouldn’t be religion.
I didn’t think that you did, honestly. My point is not to say you’re an anti-religious bigot, but to point out that not everyone agrees with you about how religion shapes their world view–it doesn’t have to be anti-science in orientation at all, even if sometimes it is. Plus, the opposite can be true as well–slapping science on something doesn’t always make it actual, factual, and truthful – hence my pointing to eugenics, which is largely a discredited science.
Not always. There are plenty of rich religious people and plenty of poor ones. While religion can at times be an impediment to education, so can flat out poverty which has little to nothing to do with religion or religious persecution. At times, religion can push hard for education. Some non-Catholics actually seek out catholic schools, in part because they are generally rigorous, and they tend not to short change science, leaving theological questions for catechism classes, where they belong. The same can’t be said for many newer protestant/evangelical schools, sadly. Baptists seem to be the worst about this.
But not everyone interprets this in the same way, now or even historically. First, you have a wide range of translations, and then you get into specific interpretations, and none of them agree. I see this as both evidence of the instability of religion as well as people’s ability to get out of it what they need.
This is what causes some to embrace agnosticism or atheism, but some are able to incorporate this into their faith seemlessly–you’d have to ask them, but it doesn’t seem a problem. We are all complicated creatures and I see no reason to deny that to others. Some people embrace an interpretation that acknowledges the fact that it is not a truthful account of a scientific event, but is rather an historical interpretation which has spiritual or social meaning for them. We may not understand it, but there is that aspect of it. It connects people in meaningful ways to their communities, families and past, and those are strong things.
Look my thing about all this is simply this: the world if a shitty place full of horrible things happening all the time–religion is not the only guilty party here–I don’t think the drones killing people at weddings are a religious thing, do you? There are plenty of secular sources for this. If someone finds solace in this, and they accept that I don’t agree with their views on how the world is, then who am I to tell them they are wrong? Maybe I’m wrong here, and I am fully willing to admit that. But truth is a weird and subjective thing at times and I think understanding how people view the world and why is hard to do, even if you have similar world views.
I just saw a great movie, called the Rabbis Cat. it’s set in interwar algiers and explores how people negotiated a complicated world of imperialism and religious difference. Go check it out, it’s really interesting. Also, there is a talking cat. Who doesn’t love talking cats.
Again, this is just my $.02 and I don’t really to expect you to agree or accept it. I just wanted to show a different perspective on this issue, which acknowledges my own atheistic leanings and multi-cultural leanings. 
2 Likes
That was kinda the idea!
(By the way, if someone points out that there is a correlation between two things, there’s no need to say “not always”. Some random variation is implicit in a statistical correlation.)
I just wanted to make my points clear, as I wasn’t sure that they were to you in my first set of comments. I do history, though, not science… 
Please speak to your Christian friends about this exciting development.
2 Likes
Thanks for taking the time to reply to that comment. I tried to formulate one but in the end could not do so without also coming off sounding like a jerk.
BTW if you liked the movie version of The Rabbi’s Cat, definitely check out the two book collections.
Yeah, you know what, here’s my thing: I’m an atheist, and I don’t want people to try and force me to one point of view, including that of an atheistic mindset. I’m actually genuinely interested in how people structure their lives and not making judgements on that until I really understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Of course, there are some things I’m against and that I think are immoral, but believing in a god isn’t one of them, as long as that god is not blood thirsty and vicious of non-believers, or whatever. It’s not like the modern secular world doesn’t have it’s own kinds of faith (think about the 19th-20th century, with it’s battles of ideologies, communism, capitalism, nationalisms, etc) which has created problems in the world. And science is not always pristine either, as we know. That doesn’t mean we should completely reject it, but we should always be on the look out for bad uses of science.
The more I look at the world, the more I see unnecessary divisions that we are all being boxed into that is only keeping us from seeing the real problems we collectively face… Since our world is so globally connected, it actually does matter what we do to people on the far side of the world. How we consume, for example, has ramifications for how people work on the other side of the planet. As long as we are able to think of people as “other” than ourselves, for whatever reason, and not human beings who deserved consideration at the very least, we are sunk as a species.
I will check them out! I saw that it’s a graphic novel, so I’ll looking into picking them up. These could be a good reading for a world history class, too… It sort of reminded me of the movie the Secret of Kells–have you seen that? It’s pretty amazing.
In the English speaking world, most people don’t seem to know that North Africa used to have a really vibrant Jewish community, much less that it was any different from that of Europe.
Looks interesting. Have to see about tracking down the Japanese release so the wife and I can both enjoy it
1 Like
Yeah, Arab and African Jews in general have been ignored by the west.
You’ll love it, if you like the Rabbi’s cat. it’s about early Irish Christianity. Beautiful animation and a good story.
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
