Sure. But again, at least in America, where I am referring to, such a definition of conservatism has long, long, been incorrect. You said I was being unfair to conservatism. You seem to have a definition of it in your head that does not reflect any current reality of it, and perhaps I was unfair to that fictional construct, but that’s a weird form of straw man. I judge the group by what they call themselves and what they subsequently do, not what one might wish the term meant. I stand by everything I said as being fair.
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It is really nothing I have in my head. I don’t even know why I wrote that you are unfair to conservatism. Strange of me. You are of course correct.
Most people who call themselves conservatives over here are not much better than over there.
What I should have expressed is of course that it is sad that the type of right wing politician (both liberal and conservative) that sees beyond Corporate interests are allmost extinct on both sides of the Atlantic. That was why I thought that Elisabeth Warren was such an interesting character, an real old school liberal.
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I actually voted conservative in a Canadian election 30-or-so years ago, and for context I’m one of a minority group that many wish dead. There’s an “at its best” version of conservatism that I wish existed. In hindsight, I don’t know if that’s who I voted for, or if I just didn’t know any better at the time. It’s possible this ideal of conservatism never existed. The long history of it being cover for racism and bigotry of all types certainly suggests as much. But I actually wish it did exist. There is value in some of the ideas buried under it all.
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- I actually voted conservative in a Canadian election 30-or-so years ago*
Mulroney or Clark?
I detested Brian but compared to a US conservative today he was pretty decent. Of course, politically, he was abit left of Elizabeth Warren.
A lot of the article content relates to idiotic laws as much as it does to brutal police.
One night during briefing, our watch commander told us that the city council had requested a new zero tolerance policy. Against murderers, drug dealers, or child predators? No, against homeless people collecting cans from recycling bins
We used to have informal contests for who could cite or arrest someone for the weirdest law. DUI on a bicycle, non-regulation number of brooms on your tow truck (27700(a)(1) of the California Vehicle Code)… shit like that.
I researched obscure penal codes so I could arrest people in homeless encampments for lesser known crimes like “remaining too close to railroad property” (369i of the California Penal Code).
And remember that Eric Garner was killed for selling loose cigarettes. Many murders by cop escalate from arrests or suspicion of nonviolent “crimes”.
Maybe what we need is to remove a whole lot of laws from the book of things enforceable by the police, or remove those laws entirely. Confine the cops’ arrest authority to things like murder, assault, rape, DUI, arson, robbery.
Because if you get rid of all public police, what you’ll get is private police, a libertarian wet dream. Lots of private cops working for tech tycoons, VCs, celebrities, and lots of armed “neighborhood watches”. And if you or someone you love gets roughed up, or ghod forbid killed, by those private cops . . . . . who ya gonna call?
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There are plenty of articles about possible replacements, and leaving a power vacuum to be filled by ayn-cap private police forces isn’t considered an option.
Here’s a few, but I don’t have time to give more links
http://www.solfed.org.uk/da/anarchism-and-crime
https://popularresistance.org/police-abolition-and-other-revolutionary-lessons-from-rojav
Any reference to libertarian in these articles refers to libertarian socialism, an older political system unrelated to american libertarianism.
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From the article:
For instance, it may well be decided that victimless “crimes” would not be punished and informal sanctions would be adequate in the case of most petty, minor and isolated offences.
Makes good sense to me. I did see a comment here last month on one of the covid threads to the effect that mask wearing should be mandated by law rather than just recommended, because of course “we” need to be able to enforce this by threatening to bust people. And given the general high level of support here for banning this, that and every other thing, it’s hard to imagine a law enforcement free society that will please most boingers. How do you stop someone from not recycling, from selling mint-flavored vapes or from letting their customers sit closer than six feet apart?
Unintended consequences…it’s not just an idea, it’s the law!
I don’t have the time to answer this properly so I recommend looking at https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy101/, who have dealt with this question many times before.
Just remember to read all the answers, and don’t just cherry pick or nut pick the ones that fit with your point of view.
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and that goes beyond borders…
HK police force AKA China Police chant “I can’t breath”.
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From that well known hive of MAGA scum and villainy, National Public Radio
I did read some of the “Anarchism FAQ” at the link you posted. They get an “attaboy” for mentioning Lysander Spooner, but they get a major “awshit” for needing an astoundingly large bucket of e-ink to demonstrate that Lenin was not an anarchist. I could do that in about two paragraphs.
If anything, that proves my point. There is nothing in that article about the groups being an ayn-cap private police force.
The NPR also claim that they are there to protect people from anarchists, but then later quote someone who “wouldn’t give his last name but described himself as working with anarchists” who is also working alongside them. So which is it?
The sad fact is that they need more than two paragraphs to explain it, and I see that ridiculous claim at least once a month. Either some people believe it or we are being trolled (and as the last four years have shown, the trollies eventually end up with an army of true believers.)
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In some cities, the city government knows who butters its bread and may as well be a private police force
I would of course be totally shocked to learn that some Bev Hills residents who have publicly spoken out on behalf of the protestors privately take a different approach when it’s their own homes and businesses that are the subject of protests. Lots of people are capitalist about their personal stuff but socialist about the stuff of others.
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The Beverly Hills story seems to be a privatizing the commons issue. It is the opposite of what is going on in the CHAZ, for example.
I could get into a discussion about personal vs private vs public property, but it would be massively off topic.
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Is this the appropriate situation to use the little letter/big letter convention? Like little c conservatism is a/the general idea where as big C Conservatism is what people/groups are portraying/labeling themselves as as part of current political parties/events/movement kind of thing? Like the big letter versions of names seem like they should all have ©, ® and ™ in superscript next to them because the dictionary doesn’t define them as much as the advertisers/proponents do?
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