In other words, we will never be accepted as allies, just as potential aggressors until proven otherwise. Then, afterward, as useful idiots for someone else’s cause.
Say what now?
Wow, what a misreading.
To say “Don’t get defensive when you’re not immediately accepted as an ally. Listen some more.” is not to say “You will never be accepted as an ally.”
It means, IF you’re not IMMEDIATELY accepted as one, don’t assume what you just assumed. Instead, try to understand why people MIGHT expect you to spend some time and effort proving yourself as an ally, before automatically accepting you as one. And also try to understand that past experience has taught many people that people like you aren’t automatically trustworthy.
I honestly don’t know how you got that out of what I said.
I’m so sorry that you feel threatened by me asking for people to listen.
How do you get that out of what she said?
What is that giant cow-chip doing on your shoulder? Doesn’t it stink?
No, as @Mister44 has been reminding me today, it’s on me to communicate myself better. Obviously, expressing my fears of the future and simply asking people to listen to me and treat me as equal is beyond the pale.
My past experience has shown that people like them aren’t automatically trustworthy, even if “them” includes me. I try my best to listen, and to understand, and to help, but it is never enough. I’m tolerated at best. When anything bad happens I am always the first one under the bus.
This seems like a good idea on paper, but have they tried it in practice? Whether you think you are helping, you are actually inserting yourself into the conflict, which is unwise, and it all is based on the assumption that the aggressor can be ‘shamed’, which is doubtful. If you were a kindly old lady, perhaps the victim would be open to your attention, but as a white male it would be even more threatening. The last thing they would want is more attention paid to them and what is happening.
Their priority would be to just get out of the situation as fast as possible and not make anything worse.
If you think this is a subtle way to defuse the situation, but if subtlety worked on the harasser then that would imply that they had some sort of conscience, and if that were true they wouldn’t be harassing in the first place.
My advise would be to address the harasser directly, shift the focus to you and only you. If you feel that would not be safe, definitely don’t intervene at all.
Definitely be aware of the situation and the victim’s well being, if things get worse, call for help. It’s noble to be a hero, but you are not actually going to be able to teach someone morals in this way.
This heads directly to that business of “:First they came for XXX and I did nothing”… No it probably won’t be safe but safe got nailed in a coffin on November 8, A day that will live in Infamy
"It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.
In areas where our people are the constant victims of brutality, and the government seems unable or unwilling to protect them, we should form rifle clubs that can be used to defend our lives and our property in times of emergency"
- Malcolm X, A Declaration of Independence
Okay. at no point did I say that violence is NEVER the answer. I said that POC are more likely to get put in prison for using violence than white men.
I REALLY fucking wish people would actually respond to what I write or ASK ME TO CLARIFY instead of assuming my intent or meaning.
Not arguing, just providing an additional perspective. But yes, we should all try to assume less, including me.
Okay. I’m just really feeling attacked on the boards today in numerous conversations.
I’m sorry but this is too vague for me to grasp what you’re getting at…
I thought we were talking about a member of a dominant majority hoping to be ally with/somehow help a member of an oppressed minority…
Has any of us made this about you personally? Have I? Have I attacked you in some way when explaining myself or my views?
My point about listening and about how sometimes, you have to accept that people need time to themselves wasn’t meant to impugn you personally in anyway.
So you know what it feels like, then. That’s a good basis for moving forward.
Shit, I’m up for all the allies I can get. Don’t be a dick, cool? Then we’re cool.
Don’t know what other people are telling you, but that’s all it takes for me. Show up and contribute and do the hard stuff and you’re an ally in my book. Shutting up, listening, and nodding sagaciously is easy, but in my book, not enough and not that important. You’ll end up shutting up inevitably as per the “don’t be a dick” rule. I’m not going to throw it at you as blanket statement as some have. But if you have some ideas, I’d love to hear them.
I definitely didn’t say do nothing.
And as far as harassment, hate crimes, discrimination, and trumps deportation squads, we all have to do something. Big Time! I was going to call you out as exaggerating by going Godwin with your quote, but since the deportation thing is in trump’s first 100 day plan, your quote is now very literal.
Anyway, I said if it gets worse than say, threatening language, don’t intervene unless you can handle the whole situation, because you are likely going to make it worse than better. Call for help. See something, say something and all that.
If you can handle the situation, by all means do it. But, this poster’s advice makes it seem that it’s a simple and effective way to defuse a situation. I don’t believe it is as simple as that, makes many assumptions and doesn’t consider the unfavorable outcomes.
Perhaps if you communicated using one of these instead of typing with your lady-bits (how does that work anyhows?), we might get what you are trying to say.