Hmmm, interesting thoughts, but who or what are you responding to??
You are 100% right, you shouldnât take pride and it shouldnât matter.
Just watch out, because when you say:
The sentiment expressed is laudable, and you ARE right, but this is where we all need to be careful because this is where the sleight of hand is performed by those who wish to continue oppressing their fellow human beings, and the trick is this:
1.- Slavery happened x amount of years ago, before you and I were born
2.- Therefore you and I are not responsible for slavery
3.- We should stop feeling sorry for what white men did x number of years ago
4.- You should stop blaming your problems for what was done to your grandparents and move on.
5.- ???
6.- Profit
(Skip 5 and 6 if you never watched south park XD)
If we were, ALL OF US, rational at the same time, we could possibly end discrimination in a generation by doing this. But in practice when we try to do this, it ends up looking more like the prisonerâs dilemma, where some people will try to maximize their gains by betraying the other players in the game.
Of course, this still ignores all the other problems with the institutionalization of racism.
See, even if youâre right, and you are, even if youâre white and youâre not racist, its not about what you take for being white, its about what other people are denied because they are not, this means that its more than what the individual believes but how weâve organized ourselves to perpetuate the stupid beliefs and behaviors weâve grown accustomed to.
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Itâs about collective non-equivalence.
I donât think youâre right about that. My beef with saying that some forms of racial stereotyping are ok is that any stereotyping validates the underlying premise of all racism, which is that some races are better than others. If youâre going to allow that premise, then even if you keep your opinions on race PC and just bash white people or asian drivers or whatever, youâre going to have to accept when someone else bashes black people for whatever reasons. You can say its offensive, but not necessarily wrong, since youâve already agreed to the premise of qualitative racial differences.
Sadly sentiments like âI donât see colorâ are often just a nice way of saying âI donât see racism.â (See Stephen Colbert.)
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Okay, but what if you âbash white peopleâ for the fact that a lot of people in that dominant group say and do a lot of obnoxious and even injurious things? Thatâs not stereotyping; itâs pointing out important facts about the ongoing realities of the legacy of widespread, overt white supremacy.
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âThe past is never dead. Itâs not even past.â
- William Faulkner
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No argument there. But I donât think that pointing out that white people are often racist or that thereâs a history of racism by a white ruling class is what people mean when they refer to âreverse racismâ or racism against white people or whatever you want to call it.
Agreed that its ultimately the point and cause of the reverse racism though. And certainly not arguing that white people donât deserve it. Just that arguing for any racial differences is bound to perpetuate racism.
Edit: Iâve been thinking about this some more, and I think its the difference between racism (the system and history) and a racist (a personal tendency). Aamer Rahman is talking about the system and history of racism, which of course canât be reversed.
And I donât bring up the distinction to belittle any of it, I think heâs making a really important point. I still think its a contradiction to use that as justification to make racist (âreverseâ or otherwise) observations, but I suppose its no biggie compared to the importance of shining a light on the system and history of racism.
That was poorly worded on my part due to coming back to this after starting to say something. I meant to say something along the lines of âAny joke about one segment of the audience about another segment of the audience risks offending someone from the butt of the jokeâ. It doesnât matter who the joke is really intended for, itâs just a fact about people.
[quote=âanon15383236, post:148, topic:15578â]
I disagree; what Aamer is saying isnât "bigoted., nor is it âallowing bigoted arguments to gain a little tractionâ with pretty much anyone.
[/quote]Never said you or Aamer said anything bigoted, youâre just being jumpy. And you saying âpretty much anyoneâ goes hand in hand with my point about it gaining traction with some people who can feel more empathy for that offended person. Itâs just a bad stance to take when trying argue an important point, and it makes sense on something so personal and emotional to Aamer.
Itâs not that it doesnât exist, itâs just that its Fair and BalancedâŚ
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Limitations? Or is it just that people in those positions perceive it as such?
I can understand why a person wouldnât stand up for someone if their own life was in danger - but that does mean the choice isnât there, or just that they choose not to make it? To put it another way: is it that people donât see a choice because the consequence of one of the choices is so severe they are blind to it? I think thatâs my point here.
Anyway, lots to think about.
No, but any claims that all directions, forms and results of racism are the same, and therefore all racism is equivalent DO depend on denying the significance of âsystemic abuseâ
The way I read that comedy routine, it all fits squarely in the diagnostic frame. People who get offended by this sort of thing canât distinguish between diagnostic and prescriptive, and thatâs what messes them up. (in my limited, privileged experience.)
No, I think that there actually are real limitations on some people in this world. Bill Gates, for example, has much more access to an unlimited set of choices that you and I just donât. I donât think itâs just about consequences of our choices. Some people do not have the same set of choices, for a number of reasons. You probably have a different set of choices open to than I do, and vice versa. I think it was marx who said âMen make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.â I think in this case, I have to agree with Uncle Karl⌠I will allow that today, in the US, more people have more choices than ever before, so Iâll agree that the horizon of choices has widened, but not for everyone in the same way.
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