If there's a "gaming disorder", why isn't there a "smartphone disorder"?

It’s a factor of the flawed way we view addiction.

With drugs you have the physical addiction loop. So we like to, And you practically can. Focus on the specific behavior.

But by extension we like to force nearly everything else into that simple chemical loop. Or focus on the behavior.

On the other end we ignore the base mental health issues that drive compulsive or habitual behaviors even when they lack any credible addiction mechanic. The vast majority of drug addicts and alcoholics have an undiagnosed or untreated mental health condition.

And your “video game addiction” and “screen addiction” in the rare cases where they represent a real problem. Are really no different than shopping addiction or book addiction or porn addiction. A whole suite of already well established psychological disorders can drive people to compulsively engage in certain behaviors. Or focus on certain activities to the point of negative impact on themselves as a certain kind of withdrawal (not the drug kind) of avoidance.

Often anxiety or depression. The suite of problems related to ocd. Even more serious conditions like schizophrenia and your various bipolars.

There’s no real “addiction” here in the strict sense. And often times it lacks even the self medication dynamic that drive so many into physical addiction.

It’s just a particular presentation of a couple of well known dynamics. But it’s cheaper and more convenient to treat it all as a simple problem with the subject or media itself. Looks better in a headline, And placates a lot of special interests.

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Because then everybody would be mentally ill and the world would have to start taking it seriously for once instead of stigmatizing and marginalizing people?

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There is, it’s called driving and yakking on your phone. I call it drakking.

And/or exist in high-stress or otherwise unhealthy environments and lifestyles.

It’s not “my” video game addiction, and I’m sure I’m not the first person to discuss screen addiction. What I’m arguing here is essentially what Rob is in his headline and suggesting a broader category.

A case can be made that things that aren’t foreign chemical substances can also create a pleasant stimulative effect resulting from the release of naturally occurring hormones or neurotransmitters (e.g. serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, oxytocin). However, as you say in the end it’s easier to go for the low-hanging fruit of cutting off the substance or stimulant than it is to address the underlying problems.

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Maybe we get tiny endorphin doses from diddling around with social media. I’ve noticed people I know flipping through photos and “liking” mostly meaningless pics their friends took, and getting some kind of validation when one of their photos gets a lot of “likes.” I’m not sure I would call this a “disorder” but I’m pretty sure it’s addictive.

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I didn’t pay a ton of attention to the pic for this post, but i just noticed that the controller is wired and its triggering me :sweat_smile: wtf

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Rob is such a cleaver troll at times, isn’t he?

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what no I can walk away anytime… any…wait I may lose my regular status? oh… hmm. I may have a problem. :slight_smile:

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“If unicorns exist, why doesn’t the Flying Spaghetti Monster”

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Good point. Stress can jack you up and people develops really bad coping mechanisms for things. But in my experience the really extreme behavior takes and added kicker, often anxiety issues.

Not that all these bird watching addiction freak outs are really talking about behavior that extreme.

That’s the collective your. As in society. Not the singular you your.

I don’t think you need to make a case. That’s how our brains work. And nearly anything creates a sensation of brain chemistry response positive or negative. What I don’t think holds is claims that that basic mechanic can lewd to chemical addiction. What doesn’t happen in those cases is your brain doesn’t stop making the neurotransmitters in question, or lose the ability to take them back up. There isn’t really a deficiency of chemical imbalance in the brain. And while there’s a lot out there looking at the chemical response in the brain. And a lot of people suggesting that could lead to such an imbalance. I don’t think I’ve seen anything establishing that it actually does.

So your talking about a very different process for conditioning behaviors.

Some one who compulsively cuts themselves to deal with stress and anxiety doesn’t generally get treatment for addiction. But the person who seeks out sex, or withdraws into WOW for the same reasons, does.

And the people with the addictions, often don’t get treatment for the stress and anxiety that lead to their compulsion. Whether it’s drugs or fast food.

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I’d suspect that games have two things working against them on that score:

A lot of what happens on smartphones, while explicitly designed by ‘audience engagement’ experts to be as addictive as reasonably possible; also looks like an extension of ‘real life’(and it often is). It’s not clear that hitting the ‘social’ networking real hard is actually so different from playing an MMORPG with lousy graphics and limited art direction, but clever use of player generated content in place of static NPCs; but it looks a lot different: like a continuation of social activity in another medium.

Games, by contrast, tend to be visibly distinct from other activities. This can actually make them less dangerous: every time you pick up a phone for some actual reason it has a chance to hit you with a few notifications and try to draw you in to something you hadn’t planned on; while plunking down and booting up the xbox or l33t gamer PC is quite deliberate; and whatever is confined to that hardware has few opportunities to waylay out when you go about your daily business. However, it also makes “gamer holes up with game for 30 hours” obviously abberant; where “teen sent how many texts during last 7 days?” can be accomplished with fewer visible gaps.

And, as in the case you mention, games(not wholly unsurprising for well polished escapist material set in a world engineered to be fun, empower the player character, provide discrete, achievable, win conditions, etc.) do serve as a passtime and/or obsession for a number of dramatically self-destructive people. Both on the basis of games’ distinct imperfections compared to reality; and more personal experience than I’d really have preferred to have, I would suspect that games are often the proximate but rarely the ultimate cause of these cases; but it’s the proximate cause that is most visible.

At a population level, I suspect that phones win hands down in terms of person/years of unhealthy compulsive behavior. They are wildly common, have so many innocent reasons to pick them up; and team social/mobile is very, very, dedicated to user engagement metrics(my favorites at Dopamine Labs, actual slogan “Dopamine makes your app addictive!” apparently decided that was just too mustache-twirling sometime earlier this year; and are now hiding out at the much more anodyne ‘boundless.ai’, albeit selling much the same services); and, as anyone who has ever had the pleasure of trying to get someone to stop half-paying-attention while staring at their phone can tell you, they don’t have that nice, sharp, dividing line between ‘doing’ and ‘not doing’; which makes it easier to rack up more hours than you would expect in the ‘doing’ phase.

When it comes to becoming a seriously troubled recluse and spending 16-20 hours a day hiding from life until some aspect of it catches up with you, though, the normally-helpful ‘discrete boundaries’ and ‘occupies your attention and you and everyone else know that’ effects make your self destruction that much more visible.

Edit: Just tell me that “Becoming a user’s habit is necessary for an app’s survival. Fortunately, habits are programmable: we do what we’re reinforced for.” isn’t something that sounds like it would come from either a cartoonishly evil dealer in a DARE video or a soon-to-be-disgraced psychologist whose interest in classical conditioning exceeds his willingness to put up with IRBs. Rather than being something you are proud enough of to put on the front page of your rebranded-to-be-less-threatening addiction optimization solution’s site…

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Wow.

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Yeah. The disturbing thing is that their warm and cuddly rebrand made them even creepier.

The Dopamine Labs era had a kind of The Screwtape Letters goes to Silicon Valley charm to it. Agents of darkness utterly devoted to the cause of human temptation and perdition, yes; but their joy and enthusiasm for their work was slightly endearing.

Now they’ve gone nauseously A Report on the Hipster Affectations of Evil. Seriously

And they aren’t ‘evil’ anymore, they are about ‘thriving’, like the Juicero of sinister mind control AIs:

So, here’s the deal:
“Dalton and I watched and read too much scifi growing up.

And for every 1 dystopia movie, there are 3 better utopia novels. So now we can’t get 2 determinately optimistic ideas out of our head: (1) the future is going to be awesome (and awesome for everyone: not just white bearded rich educated heteronormative californian cis male technocrats: that would suck). (2) the relationship between humans and our machines must be one of mutual thriving and improvement.

The little magical slabs of glass that live in our pockets and proliferate across the globe are tools for human thriving.

So we built Boundless Mind (then Dopamine Labs) to help that future become manifest.

Technology is becoming more (addictive / persuasive / coercive) every day and there isn’t much we can do to reverse it. And it sucks that the technologies that are becoming persuasive the fastest aren’t necessarily ones that are great for human thriving. You deserve a better world than one in which the most persuasive technologies demand from you your eyeball hours and brand loyalty in exchange for cat videos.

That’s effing dystopic.

We spent grad school unravelling the mechanisms of human behavior. The result? We have an unrivaled understanding of where behavior – especially motivation – actually comes from. So we baked that knowledge into the Boundless AI. Now any app that wants to help people thrive can do so powered by the edge of the state of the arts at the intersection of brains, minds, and machines.”

It’s like the drivel from Facebook’s recent “We aren’t actually evil, we’re about connection” PR blitz, except from people who are already protesting too much without having been accused of anything.

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Because the very definition of a disorder (according to most) is that it’s not normal.

Gaming has had a long acceptance curve compared to smartphone adoption. Seeing someone staring at their phone during any second of downtime has become normal. Line ups, waiting/riding for the bus or the train, a quick check on your coffee or lunch break… We don’t see that as odd, at all. We also accept it because smartphone use is public. Mostly, we don’t see gamers (at least non smartphone games) out in public. The average person doesn’t consider themselves a “gamer”, even if they sink 15-20 hrs a week into Candy Crush or it’s ilk (sorry, fellow BBers, we are not average), so they aren’t exposed to regular gaming, only what they hear about in the news or from studies like this. So they think that it’s a problem, because it’s not “like them”. A lot of them don’t know what gamers find attractive in video games (outside the ones on their phones), so to them, a heavy interest is abnormal. It was thus with comics, once upon a time, too. Hell, your average person still doesn’t get cosplay, outside of Halloween.

Now the immaturity and rage issues are another story, but if 2018 has taught us anything, that behaviour isn’t tied to gaming, it’s just that some people with those issues happen to be gamers.

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I like Gabor Mate’s definition of addiction (my paraphrase)

Craving something that provides temporary relief from the craving while causing harmful effects that should be enough reason to stop it but aren’t because the thing makes it hard to stop.

Most everything including oil is addictive; it is just a matter of whether the social environment has strong enough forces to pull the individual out of the addiction.

Sex addiction is real. And that is no excuse for sexually offensive behavior any more than drunks are excused for drunk driving.

Welp, now this makes me want to make a facebook app that turns all your “friends” into various D&D subclasses and auto-translates and maps their comments into vague Common dialogue about dragons, storied treasure troves, and necromamcers holed up in towers…

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It’s because smartphones are smart, so psychologists ignore their boorishness.

I guess cause boingboing didn’t help define one? Are you addicted to your phone?

I want to live in Rat Park!

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