Iowa Democratic party chief quits after caucus trainwreck

well, i’m in Nevada, so stay tuned next week. we’ve been pushing for decades for Iowa to lose its first-place status, and we’re finally seeing our chance to take the slot. we’re much more representative of the country as a whole, and we also have the representation of the concerns of the western side of the country.

As for me, i would much prefer that the first 5 states get randomly organized every year, or let’s just all agree to do same-day voting if we have to get rid of the caucus system, but i defend the caucus system as generally being pretty transparent, if you are fortunate enough to be able to participate in one. you can sit there in the room and count just as well as the organizers can. the biggest problem i see with the caucus system is that it just doesn’t scale very well for larger populations, and there needs to be a way so the maximum number of people are able to participate. We are expanding ours this year to also include a 2-week voting period in addition to the caucus, so people can go and vote for their top three picks, and then those are sorted and tabulated during the caucus. i think this is a great addition.

4 Likes

This guy is using official results, and you can check his work, if you want to, before dismissing it.

There are small errors in all directions in the spreadsheet above. The point is that, taken as a whole, those small errors are very very likely not random. There is an entire discipline of math called statistics dedicated to figuring things like this out. I applied a basic statistical test to make this determination. You could take issue with the test I chose (e. g. the Kolmogorov-Smirnoff test would be more technically correct than a t-test in this case, but I chose the t-test because the difference in means is more relevant than the shapes of the distributions), but simply brushing it off without addressing it makes it clear that you are either not being honest, or are not qualified to comment on quantitative analyses.

No it isn’t.

They couldn’t have rigged it for Biden, so they had to go with who they had. It would be more accurate to say they rigged it against Sanders than for Buttigieg. Even if it eventually gets sorted out, it will have served its purpose by changing the media narrative when it mattered.

If you go to a casino, and you see the house win a game the first try, despite ostensible 600 to 1 odds against it, and your reaction is not to assume that the game is rigged, I would like to cordially invite you to come play at my casino next time.

1 Like

That’s not Murican!

3 Likes

And when those state organizations say no, or their members do not pass those rule changes? Which has happened in the past. What then?

Our political parties are simply not structured that way. The central problems here, caucuses and scheduling are in large part set by state laws rather than party rules. Iowa and New Hampshire go first as a matter of state law. Iowa uses a caucus as a matter of state law. Their respective parties could change their rules on that all they like, and they’d only be in violation of state law.

The sort of problems we see every 4 years in Iowa are largely a feature of caucuses. Which few states use.

The system before the modern one didn’t allow public participation of any sort. Party and elected officials had a series of private meetings where delegates negotiated for nominees. These were called caucuses. And the still existing caucuses are essentially that with open admission and voters bolted in.

The modern system was spearheaded by the DNC in response to the protests at the 68 call convention.

Point being this shit is not some sudden problem rooted in the DNC, and a lot of the issues roll out of shit that’s well beyond their control.

Hadn’t caught that thanks.

Cause that wouldn’t be an unholy shit show. Super popular too, imagine the headlines if the DNC refused to accept the results of a primary Bernie won.

More over that would conflict pretty heavily with a lot of state and federal election laws.

What you’d need to force the issue is a large state with a variable primary date to schedule it’s primary impractically early (NY for example, out primary is rescheduled by the Governor every 4 years to avoid conflicts, think it defaults to January).

Or enough states to schedule on the same day to neuter the influence of early and caucus states. This is part of the idea behind Super Tuesday.

Fact of the matter this is an issue if general election reform. Not something any one party can dictate from the top down, and frankly political parties should not have the ability to do so.

Same-day voting would mean the media narrative would be the only thing we’d have to work with walking into the polls. Stretching it out and making candidates debate each other, travel the country, and press the flesh gives us independent sources of information.

The California Plan has 10 primaries, small-to-large states in groups, with some randomness. The actual numbers are chosen according to formulas that are supposed to allocate power by size. (An older proposal, the Delaware Plan, started with the 12 smallest states, then the next 13, then the next 13, then the last 12, in same day monthly blocks in March-June. It was criticized on the grounds of practicality, as being too hard for candidates to travel between 12-13 states over the course of a month.)

i’m in Nevada,

I like the Nevada caucus; it has very high involvement from unions, especially teachers and hospitality industry unions. Of course, the extremes of the party don’t like unions: the right for religious reasons, the left because many of them fundamentally distrust workers.

i defend the caucus system as generally being pretty transparent

I agree, having caucused in 3 states (and primaried in several more). Because everything is done in the open, they are pretty much unriggable. Some of the objections, for example the difficulty for the handicapped, and voters away from home, are valid.

It’s happened before; you end up with things like straw polls.

You can’t really force it on one or two states in isolation, but you can come up with a compromise that everyone can live with and get everyone on board. Hence proposal(s) like the ones I describe earlier in the post.

1 Like

The national party grows a spine and tells them that a primary that doesn’t meet their standards and rules won’t be recognised, or that the results won’t be taken into account until the time of and under the circumstances of their choosing. There are plenty of Dems in Iowa who are embarrassed by the caucus system and want change; the DNC has the ability to help them attain leadership positions in the state orgs, but since they tend to be progressives that’s not happening

And again, there are ways around that without violating state laws. Those laws can also be challenged as unConstitutional at the national level if the DNC so wishes.

The bugs goes beyond that to scheduling. Two lily-white states should not be first in the nation.

It’s not a binary situation. No-one calling for change and reform and standards is advocating a return to smoke-filled back rooms.

This is what I’m talking about: they’re still using a 50-year-old system (the superdelegates are another) that’s addressing old and out-dated problems and which is now buckling under new circumstances. It’s 2020, but the DNC establishment is using mid-century rules and insisting that its presidential candidates still campaign as if it’s the End of History ca. 1992.

The problem isn’t rooted in the DNC, but that organisation’s myriad problems (cowardice, complacency, inertia, corruption) are why the problem isn’t being fixed.

1 Like

That’s what you’ll hear from officials in early states who are insanely defensive about their early status.

But our very long campaign season is the major reason it’s so insanely expensive to run for office in this country. That incredibly expense driving the need for all that corporate and Super Pac money.

And what tends to actually happen is it leads to an incredibly narrow focus on the earliest states. And within them huge access and focus on wealthy, white, already enfranchised voters and state officials. It’s essentially a big ole corruption factory where currently one New Hampshire official, not beholden to voters, exerts a massive influence over the whole process.

It’s also been fingeted repeatedly as a suppressive factor on voter turnout nationally. Powerful band wagon effects, and the impression given to most states (often the most non-white states) is that the decision is already made. And their vote will not matter. With the now multi-year process leading to voter fatigue and lack of attention.

A single National primary day doesn’t preclude debates, call coverage and actual campaigning either virtually no other country does it this way. With campaign seasons tending to last 6 months. Those nations tend to have higher turnout and more informed populations.

No state should be first. You’ll just barrel into the same problem. Suppressive effects in the nation at large and laser focus on the political and media class of that state.

That political class will be different, but it’s still an approach based in old school horse trading politics. The staggered schedule is a hold over from the old party insider caucus system, largely kept as a compromise to continue maximizing the influence of certain states.

No but you can call the improvement a failure given that we don’t currently have smoke filled rooms. You can lay it on the DNC when they lead the push to fix it.

Again it’s not the DNC “establishment”. It’s the nation. Frankly we need another push like there was in the 60’s. It is simply not going to happen exclusively within the DNC, because a major portion of those reforms involved limiting political party’s power over the issue. And ensconcing reforms in law.

You can call the improvement a failure when it no longer works under new circumstances 50 years later, and by the same token you can call a national party establishment that’s unable or unwilling to enact change when it can a failure, too.

1 Like

There is this great big, stupid, idiotic, unsupported belief out there that politics is supposed to be “fair”.

There is well over 100 years of history that makes the concept that a democratic primary should be “fair” completely and utterly ridiculous. Never at any point has Democratic primaries been “Fair”; they were never designed to be fair, they are not even supposed to be fair.

Note that Republican primaries have a very similar history. But we aren’t talking about them right now. Just don’t think for one second that they are fair, either.

People think of the Democrats as being some kind of government institution; who nominate someone who has a roughly 50% shot of winning the presidency, in a fair and open, transparent manner.

In reality, it is a private club operated by people who are passionate about their beliefs in the club and their goals, who find someone who they believe will forward their club’s goals to nominate for various governmental positions, then they endorse those people and other members of the club are encouraged to vote for them.

There is nothing, from a legal perspective, that makes the Democratic candidate any more liable to win than any other candidate, such as the Green party candidate, the Socialist candidate, or the Nazi candidate.

The only advantage the Democratic candidate has is the Democratic party’s request to their members that they vote for their candidate, and the mechanisms and support networks that the party has in place to support their candidate’s run.

I bet a lot of the people who are uber passionate about the Democratic party and way of life and who live and breathe the values of the Democratic party would prefer a Democrat to win the Democratic primary. Call me crazy.

And when there is some wiggle room; yeah, they are going to wiggle it for the Democratic candidate against Sanders. As they are probably going to wiggle it against Bloomberg as well. As they are going to wiggle it against anyone who hasn’t stood with the party and voted for them for a very long time.

And that’s the thing. Sanders (and Bloomberg) can’t win by a hair because of this. They will always be rounded against. They can’t squeak by. If there is a tie, it will go against them. They have to win so big that they obviously win. They have to be big and bold and prove that they are the future of the party, so big that everyone will understand that. Even then- there will be some people who would prefer a real, honest, in the skin Democrat looses than a DINO or a Democratic Socialist wins. (Although not against Trump.)

So if you’re a Sanders supporter? Don’t just sit there and post online. Go to the Democratic headquarters. Volunteer. Help. Learn. Earn their trust. Bring the Sanders philosophy into the party. Continue through this cycle even if Sanders doesn’t win; come back next year for the locals and work on the senate off-cycle elections. Learn how to do the jobs and keep doing them until you are good at it. Then in the future people like Sanders will have people to wiggle for him.

I will acknowledge this is going to be a lot harder if you’re in Russia…

[ETA: If you are a Bloomburg supporter, go to the Republican headquarters and do the same, then try to take your party back. In a just world, Bloomberg would be a right wing Republican; as would have been Clinton.]

4 Likes

Most of the campaign season comes before the first primary. The way it is now, from first primary to essentially decided is only 2 months.

One things Obama and Sanders have shown us is that you can raise lots of money from small contributions.

Powerful band wagon effects, and the impression given to most states (often the most non-white states) is that the decision is already made. And their vote will not matter.

Again, this is something you can avoid by having the primaries in blocks of increasing size so later states can still affect the outcome. In the California plan California and Texas don’t get to vote until maybe the 6th or 7th step, but can still reverse the running totals.

A single National primary day doesn’t preclude debates, call coverage and actual campaigning either virtually no other country does it this way. With campaign seasons tending to last 6 months. Those nations tend to have higher turnout and more informed populations.

Surprisingly, we have a higher voter turnout in national elections, as a fraction of registered voters, than almost every other country. Where we’re low is our rate of voter registration, and that’s probably not so much a matter of fatigue as of convenience (or suppression in many communities).

Recent national elections in many other countries have frankly not been great advertisements for their systems. Politics seems to be breaking pretty much everywhere.

1 Like

Pete’s come in second twice, but leads the National Delegate Count. At this rate he’ll take everything

1 Like

Democracy itself should be fair, but then that would deprive greedy assholes from exploiting the rest of the population for their own benefit. And, of course, there’s a lot of money in that, which is a constant daily force that opposes the will of the people.

I’d just settle for a Democratic primary being … democratic.

4 Likes

I think there are plenty who would prefer that even against Trump.

100% true, but:

1)That doesn’t change the fact that they’re outright lying about it, and claiming that it wasn’t rigged. A lot of people don’t like it when you piss on them and then try to tell them it’s raining.

  1. That eliminates any moral authority they might have when they’re trying to convince people who aren’t democrats to support them in the general.

  2. It broadly undermines any argument suggesting that people have an ethical obligation to work within the system, rather than outside of it, to change things.

  3. They love to complain about “spoilers” when people vote third party, despite continuing to support the system that makes spoilers a thing.

That is to say, they are 100% within their legal rights to do pretty much whatever they want to, and lie about it, and gaslight anyone who points that out, but doing so destroys any claim they might have to the support of the people they are lying to, no matter who they are running against. If they actually cared more about defeating Trump than clinging to their own positions of power in the party machine, they wouldn’t be doing that stuff.

3 Likes

i think forcing the media to do everything at once would shake up their coverage, too, they would have less influence overall. the thirst for interest among the electorate might (hopefully) force them to do their own research and seek out the candidates themselves, instead of just being spoon-fed a narrative by a favorite media.

I like the Nevada caucus; it has very high involvement from unions, especially teachers and hospitality industry unions. Of course, the extremes of the party don’t like unions: the right for religious reasons, the left because many of them fundamentally distrust workers.
[/quote]

wait, what? the left is MADE UP of a lot of those union workers, especially in NV. that’s why they are so powerful here.

I agree, having caucused in 3 states (and primaried in several more). Because everything is done in the open, they are pretty much unriggable. Some of the objections, for example the difficulty for the handicapped, and voters away from home, are valid.
[/quote]

that’s been my experience, too. it seems far more unriggable than counting done behind the scenes. the other objections are things NV is addressing with our system this year: the 2-week voting window before the caucus, and also they are offering rides to voting locations for people who need it.

1 Like

Unions are the traditional left, and the operational backbone of the Democratic Party at the state and local leadership level, but there has been ideological friction in recent cycles between the activist left and the union base. The “fundamentally distrust workers” is my own take, in part based on some of the anti-Party rhetoric I heard in 2016 (and since).

1 Like

Multiple times since 2008 there have been attempts to back New Hampshire down so a larger more diverse state could be put early in the schedule. That failed down to a number of problems with convincing New Hampshire. Including GOP control of the state, and GOP support for the Democratic Secretary of State who’s the one guy who practically controls all this. You can’t primary the guy, or withdraw support. Because New Hampshire’s Secretary of State is elected by their legislature rather than appointed or picked by voters.

That culminated in SC and Nevada being moved to 3rd and 4th. Basically a compromise acceptable to New Hampshire and Iowa to get large diverse states as early in the schedule as possible.

New Hampshire is the stumbling block here. Because their law dictates that they be the first primary nationally, and the Secretary of State sets the date to ensure that happens. And weirdly New Hampshire holds a lot of power over the scheduling and format of Iowa’s caucus, as their law avoids conflict with NH by definitely not being a caucus and scheduling carefully in reaction to NH’s announced date.

2018 Democrats took control of the NH legislature. And there was an attempt by Democrats, apparently supported DNC to replace Bill Gardner the secretary of State (who is a Democrat) in response to his involvement with the Trump voter fraud pony show.

That failed largely thanks to lock step support for Gardner from the GOP. The combined GOP minority, and a subset of state Democrats fixated on the first in the nation thing was enough for Garner to keep his office by a single vote. He is the single largest stumbling block to altering the schedule without a big ole slap fight between State Governments.

This time in 2016 people were enraged that delegate levels in the DNC contests favored popular vote winners too heavily. That narrow winners, esspeciallt in almost tied contests, were given a disproportionate number of delegates. Disadvantaging less established candidates. So under DNC pressure most states have switched to a more proportional allotment of delegates. Leading to out current Buttigieg/Sanders situation. And there are no winner take all contests in the Democratic process this year (admittedly I don’t remember when there last were).

Fact of the matter is that within the bounds of what they can do. Without triggering a big ole legal fight or getting the GOP and a majority of states on board. They’re pretty active about it.

There’s myriad ways you could force the issue. But I for one don’t think a messy series of lawsuits in the midst of an election would work out all that well.

That doesn’t make it OK that there’s lots of money involved. Regardless of where the money comes from you’re still looking at a massive for profit industry revolving around our elections.

That a few highly visible politicians can run billion dollar presidential campaigns with a focus on small donors doesn’t mean that vast costs for mounting any sort of campaign up and down the ballot doesn’t have a negative impact.

It also doesn’t mean that our politicians don’t spend vastly more time fundraising and campaigning than they do actually governing. Hell getting politicians back on the campaign trail is a major factor in scheduling government actions. Particularly Senate votes, and became a factor in the impeachment trial. We had a Democratic congressman here on Long Island retire cause he couldn’t stand to cold call for contributions anymore (he writes science fiction now).

How does that avoid it? The weight there is just fixed by a slightly different schedule. Unless the final block is large enough to overcome all preceding blocks it’s still largely set before most people vote. If you do it that way then the early votes are the pointless ones. That’s largely a question of trying to push the media attention elsewhere in the schedule.

Why not cut that factor out.

Votes as a proportion of total eligible voters we sit near the bottom. And while states with automatic registration, early voting and the like see improvements after putting them in place. It’s still not great.

More important is where turnout lags most. The young, the non-white. With votes not mattering and things be pre-decided or already set in stone by the time they get to vote being among the most commonly cited reasons for not voting or not registering.

Even looking at New Hampshire where the first primary is commonly fingered as providing best in the nation turnout. That only happens in the presidential primaries. Turn out lags pretty bad in off years, and it’s considerably lower for the general.

I don’t see any real reasons for any state to go first or to break it up. All of the cited reasons are after the fact justifications. The real reason we do it this way is tradition. It’s just always been spread out, the main reason it was spread out in the first place is the same deliberate compromise intended to over represent small and rural states (particularly slave states, and eventually white voters) as the electoral college and the whole congressional district thing.

Things went pretty good in Ireland the other day. I suspect they’re heading to another round of voting but there was a surprising upset in favor of left wing parties. Little weird that the major one is Sinn Fein, but had they run more people they’d be in control of the government there.

Besides our long, weird, money loving process is uniquely responsible for Donald Trump.

1 Like

I’m not asking for one during the election, but after. As I noted above, though, the DNC can’t even grasp the concept of “lessons learned”, let alone take action on them.

2 Likes

I can NOT believe that no one wanted to mention that when Tony Price took to the podium (that had an IOWA sign tacked on) to make an announcement, the damn sign fell off the podium! It’s hysterical.

land war

I’m glad that the US Military hasn’t allowed itself to get dragged in to a murky foreign war since Vietnam.

3 Likes