Irish teacher job rejection: "Irish alcoholism nature"

Might someone explain the connection between ADH2 genetic variations, alcoholism, intolerance of liquor, and perhaps how the prevalence of some of these variations among South Korean affects alcohol consumption?

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OK, so that may be how the Irish “race” was socially constructed in some societies at some period of time. But it’s not how the Irish are socially constructed in the USA (which was explicitly the setting of my example), nor do I believe it’s how the Irish are constructed in Korea.

There’s a term for anti-Jewish sentiment: anti-semitism. Racism is usually not the chosen word. Romani are not of white, European ancestry. I’m not aware of the race-related anti-German, anti-Yugoslav, or anti-Croatian movements you’re referencing, although there has obviously been significant religion-based violence in the Balkans (as there has been between the Irish themselves… are Protestant Irish a different race than Catholic Irish?).

Well, obviously it’s not racism then. bwv812 says so. Those people need to just shut up and take it huh?

You are obviously not of Irish decent. Ask yourself this, if some Koreans think that Irish people are drunks, how are they constructing their view of the Irish? Could it possibly be that they have ethnic stereotypes of Irish people based on racist tropes or is it that they have actually observed that the Irish are all drunkards? And, if Irish are not considered an ethnic group in the US, what are they considered? Why are most of the images of Irish in the US based on the racist image of the drunken fighter? Why is the only Irish holiday in the US celebrated by people getting shitfaced?

Oh, well if it has it’s own term then it must not be racism huh?

EDIT: I have a great idea, let’s call it anti-milesianism. That way it can’t be called racism. Is that how it works?

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yeah, I was totally saying that everything not commonly called racism—like anti-semitism—are great and we should tolerate it. All non-race-based form of bigotry and prejudice are great! So are things like homophobia and religious intolerance, which even you would agree are not based on any possible definition of race.

Sure, they have ethnic stereotypes and ethnic bigotry. Ethnic bigotry doesn’t equal racial bigotry.

Judaism isn’t a race. You can be both Jewish and black, white, Irish, German, Yugoslavian, and lots of other (non-religious) “races.” If a black Jew complains of racism, what do you think they are complaining about? Should a black Jew identify as multi-racial? How about an Irish Jew?

Ok, maybe you missed when I had to explain this previously.

Bigotry is about creeds, beliefs, or opinions
Racism is about race (aka ethnicity)

Of course not. It is a religion. Who said otherwise? On that point, oppression of Judaism is generally bigotry. Oppression of the Hebrew ethnicity (Jewish people) is racism. Together, they are collectively known as an ethnoreligious group. Oppression of the Jewish people can be for racial or bigoted reasons.

But you go on an rail against the machine man. Fly that freak flag and all of that. Be proud to be so damn right. Make sure that when someone perceives racism and points it out that they are swiftly jumped upon so that you can achieve whatever fucked up goal you have in this conversation… as pointless as it may be.

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I think the stereotype may be that Irish people let alcoholism affect their work. I’ve worked in Korean and Chinese schools where the Asian staff would drink heavily on a work outing, but some of the westerners would also drink late at night before an early morning class. I didn’t find the Irish people stood out as any worse than others (actually, the opposite was more accurate), but I can imagine this client having to fire a couple of Irish people in the past or hearing some stories of Irish alcoholism, then making some conclusion about Irish people from there. On the other hand, this event was also isolated and not necessarily representative of most people’s experience of working in Korea. The three western teachers in the Korean school I worked at all had Irish passports, and I never got the idea that our colleagues had this stereotype of Irish people.

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Something seems fishy with this picture of an Irish teacher in Seoul from the linked article. Can you guess what it is?

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I read it. While it may be true that “race is a social construct also referred to as ethnicity,” (and I’m not sure I would accept that as a blanket statement), this certainly doesn’t mean that every ethnicity (like the Jews) is also a race.

Anti-semitism generally applies to Jews of all stripes. When mocking my suggestion that anti-semitism isn’t racism, you suggested that anti-semitism is, by definition, racism.

So, whenever someone perceives that something is racist, nobody can voice disagreement as to whether it was actually racist (as opposed to another form of prejudice)?

And actually, my goal in this conversation was to point out why you seemed to be talking at cross purposes. While I think the question of whether this statement is racist is an interesting one, it is for reasons far different than the ones we are discussing.

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I assume you’re looking at the street banners in the background. I’ve never been to Seoul, but it seems they do have a section of the city called Ichon-dong that is home to many Japanese expats. It sounds kind of like Japantown in San Francisco or Little Tokyo in Los Angeles. Perhaps this photo was taken there?

It doesn’t say the picture was taken in Seoul. Would it be fishy if the picture was taken in Ireland?

You may be right, I would certainly be surprised to see a whole street in Seoul decorated with Japanese flags though.

No, provided Japan doesn´t have any centuries-old beef with Ireland that I´m unaware of. My guess would be it was taken in Japan.

or near a Target?

Sure. But it doesn’t say the picture is in Seoul, so it could be from anywhere she has been, which includes Abu Dhabi, South Korea, Ireland, Oxford, and Barcelona. A picture of her in London or Dubai would be about as unsurprising as a picture of her in Japan.

Ah, South Park Conservatives.

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Also, you can use the term anti-Semitism to talk about all biogtry against people who speak a Semitic language, which includes Arabic, Amharic, Aramaic, as well as Hebrew:

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Presumably it would be technically correct to apply the term to discrimination against all Semitic peoples, including Arabs, but I have never heard it used in such a context and would be pretty misleading to use it in this way.

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I actually have used it to refer to all Semitic peoples, but that was from academics, but I think you’re correct about popular usage of the term. I just wanted to point that out, as sort of an FYI…

When we refer to bigotry against Arabs, we lean towards Islamophobia in popular usage, but of course that ignores the large population of Arab Christians and Jews.

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Wikipedia says, bluntly,

While the conjunction of the units anti, Semite and ism indicates antisemitism as being directed against all Semitic people, the term was coined in Germany in 1873 as a scientific-sounding term for Judenhass (“Jew-hatred”),[4] and that has been its normal use since then.

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