If they get driven by the industries, and not for profit.
Otherwise why not just make Community Colleges better?
I’m asking serious questions. I’m skeptical, because the issue doesn’t seem to be that people can’t find a place to learn welding: The issue is that learning to weld doesn’t increase your net worth by all that much compared to working in a cube farm. Look at median salaries, not at that guy you know who learned to do X and now makes a killing. Most people are not that successful. CNC machine operators tend to be among the most highly paid technicians and they don’t make $50,000/yr. on average. If we’re talking about playing odds instead of “following your passion” whatever that means, then being excessively optimistic about vocational training seems to defeat the purpose.
Now if we’re talking about college tuition costs relative to the costs of certification to be X, Y, or Z, the argument still isn’t that convincing: If you run the numbers again, the median figures (not pie in the sky optimistic ideals of how life after college turns out) still have 4-year degrees as a solid investment over time.
I’m willing to be convinced that we need more vocational schools, but “if you build it, they will come” isn’t convincing. Especially not when, as I’ve said, we’ve been saying we need more vocational training for a long time now. If we did, we’d have done something about it by now. If the jobs are there and lucrative, we’d see more people doing them. I don’t see evidence that there’s such stigma against these jobs that people won’t take the money and run. I do see how the decline of American manufacturing jobs might put a crimp in the market for skilled blue collar workers, though.
Mike Rowe is a former opera singer and pitchman who works in show business. There are two groups of people I don’t trust to explain how the world of work functions: University professors with tenure, and people in show business. It’s not that they don’t work, but that their experience of work doesn’t align well with “the real world.” Rowe isn’t a blue collar worker, he plays one on television. His bias comes from working with small business owners, which skews his perception towards the idea that you can make a lot of money doing dirty jobs.
Yes, there are serious problems with how universities are funded and how students are incentivized to make certain choices, and yes, not everyone should be getting a four-year degree. But these aren’t problems solved by pushing vocational training. As for stigma, I live in the Rust Belt. I’m not seeing the stigma when it comes to trained blue collar work. I am seeing how there’s less of it and less money to make from it.
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No, she’ll pay it back. She’s just done college instead of, say, buying a house. So when housing collapses in ten years because all these students have unwieldy debt already, this sort of thing is why.
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I think you are wrong for several reasons:
- Working in a cube farm still requires some sort of skill set.
- “Cube farm” can mean anything from programming to data entry to call centers. The average desk job doesn’t pay a ton of money either.
- Not everyone has aptitudes for said desk job. Nor desires.
That is for everyone, including your cube farm workers. But most of them make a living. A welder, general contractor/constructions work, plumber, electrician, AC Technician is going to make a decent wage. The work may flux some, but people are always going to need your services. (And cube farms flux too - downsizing, mergers, layoffs, all sorts of instability.) They are going to make a lot more than working in a non-skilled labor at Walmart or McDonalds.
$50k is decent in my book. Better than what I make with my fancy college degree. (My own fault for having a shit degree.) Considering the median wage for a commercial truck driver is $40K. Many specialized technician fields make more than $50k. Again, all of these jobs on average will put you way above the unskilled labor set. And I know you warned about using the “one guy you know who is making a killing” as an example, but every single person I personally know who is in this sort of field makes more money than me now. When I call my AC guy out, he is driving a new truck and is talking about his new Harley. These people aren’t scraping by. Yes, not every plumber is killing it, especially the new guys, but these are viable careers.
Yes and no. It rather depends on which degree you are seeking how well it will help you find a good job to pay your loans back. And even those with useful degrees are having a hard time finding their foot into the door.
Consider that 1) not everyone has the aptitude for college, 2) not everyone lives near a good college and the logistics that entails, 3) the cost is getting more and more overwhelming, not everyone wants to take on that debt
Anecdotally, I know of a lot of people struggling to find skilled workers - even people with just a good work ethic willing to learn. (By work ethic I mean show up and leave on time.) Struggling to find work in my skill set, I was looking into finding a new skill before I finally landed the job I have. But beyond my personal experiences, yes, there is a shortage of skilled workers in some facets of industry.
But per the article, we aren’t. Partly because of lack of skills, partly too probably because of the stigma that such jobs are beneath you. That we should all strive for the cube farm.
You do realize that the US only just recently got edged out by China for being the #1 manufacturer in the world? Yes, we make much less than we used to, but the US is still manufacturing power house. It just doesn’t make cheap plastic widgets like they used to, but higher end stuff.
I normally an inclined to agree with that, except he seems to be putting his time and money where his mouth is with the mikeroweWORKS Foundation, providing scholarships for trade training programs.
My point is - life shouldn’t be College or Working Retail all your life. There are many types of jobs out there that require some skills, skills that college won’t necessarily help with. Yes certain areas have been hit way harder by the shift in the types of jobs available. But at the same time, many of these jobs are recession proof. We will always need people to make sure our shit drains away and our houses have power. We need people to maintain all sorts of electric and mechanical systems.
That’s fine, but they should also offer vocational degrees that allow one to focus on training for the job they want, not the more well rounded education that college traditionally offers.
I can’t be wrong, I’m not burdened with a need to prove anything. I’m asking for evidence. I’m not seeing a coherent path from “more vocational training” to “general better standard of living.” I’m not sure what problem this is solving. Take me well-defined A to well-defined B. There is a lot in your remarks that don’t come together to make a coherent path to a specific outcome or set of outcomes.
I want this disclaimer on the screen before he says anything on any of his shows or commercials.
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Ok, in summary:
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Not everyone is cut out for college, nor can afford it.
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There are millions of jobs unfilled right now because of lack of workers with required skills.
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Currently there are programs to acquire these skills that are cheaper than college. It would be nice if there were more of them.
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Once they are trained and in a job, they are going to be much more productive members of society than if they were untrained workers.
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People shouldn’t feel like college is the only way to be successful or make a decent living.
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Be Excellent to one another
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Party on, dudes!!*
*meant inclusively
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Bitchin air guitar solo
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???
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Profit
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- Cocaine!
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You should be able to stay cool about it then.
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They do. If you get an AA in HVAC, that’s a vocational degree. Degrees like this are the bread and butter of community colleges.
Good, because the average 2016 salary of 2015 college grads is $50,556. Even Humanities grads average over $45k.
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I do a lot of self-motivated learning, and have learned what works and doesn’t work, for me at least. It’s not so much as accountability, but having a roadmap so you don’t get overwhelmed and frustrated. Even jyst having a syllabus from a class in a subject you are interested in can do a lot of good. I enroll in MOOCs sometimes, and if the lectures and supporting material don’t do it for me, I take the syllabus (if it’s a good one) and hit the library/internet. Of course it helps motivation-wise if you are motivated and/or interested. Not sure how successful I’d be self-guiding a course on ‘Business Communication’ or something equally as obtuse to me.
These positions generally require SOME rounding for safety (the ability to read/write and perform basic mathematics operations.)
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