Jordan Neely's killer to be charged with manslaughter

Originally published at: Jordan Neely's killer to be charged with manslaughter | Boing Boing


Manslaughter? That’s bullshit. They should be charging him with murder in the 2nd degree. In New York, that’s:

A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when:

  1. (omitted because it’s not relevant here)
  2. Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life,
    he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to
    another person, and thereby causes the death of another person; or
  3. (felony murder–probably not relevant, and is bullshit we need to get rid of anyway)
  4. (repeat of #2, but where the victim is 11 or younger)
  5. (not relevant here)

This sure sounds like murder in the 2nd degree to me. IANAL, but charging him with manslaughter is generous.


The story’s first quote is Penny’s lawyer praising him and the reporters’ first question is “how is Penny feeling?”

Yes, that poor, put upon murderer. How hard this must be for him!

I’m sure that like so many fine but momentarily wayward young white men, Daniel Penny will someday be able to recover from the tragic murder he committed. :cry:


That reminds me of something.

Hartman: [referring to Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman] Do any of you people know where these individuals learned how to shoot? [Joker raises his hand] Private Joker?
Joker: [stands up] Sir, in the Marines, sir!
Hartman: [impressed] In the Marines! Outstanding! Those individuals showed what one motivated Marine and his rifle can do! And before you ladies leave my island, you will all be able to do the same thing!


Reminds me of something too. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:


Ugh, it sucks because it’s true.


He’ll be on the GOP speaking circuit within 6 months tops.


Yeah I really don’t get the media coverage on this story. They keep talking about how this is a complicated situation, and it’s hard to know what really happened, and we can’t judge people, and this is just a tragic thing that happened for everyone involved. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. This is a simple story and an easy case. Jordan Neely was not assaulting or threatening anyone. No reasonable person would have felt their lives were in danger from him. Penny took it upon himself to declare himself judge, jury, and executioner, put Neely in a chokehold and fucking killed him. It’s that simple. Tragic, yes, but simple.


I’m sure that the pity party with Kyle Rittenhouse will be … something.


Murder 2 is usually more of a “I wanted to kill someone, but I didn’t care who”.

Its the wrong Manslaughter charge. Man 1, which carries a max sentence of 25 years in NY

NY Penal Law § 125.20: Manslaughter in the First Degree
With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person you do in fact cause the death of that person,

Man 2 has a 15 year max sentence. Unfortunately arguments can be made that it fits as well

A person acts RECKLESSLY with respect to a death when that person engages in conduct which creates or contributes to a substantial and unjustifiable risk that another person’s death will occur, and when he or she is aware of and consciously disregards that risk,


The Kyle Rittenhouse defense is basically

“I obviously went out to murder for the fun of it, but its self defense if I trash talk the background/reputation of the people I killed”


That’s not what depraved heart murder is. Depraved heart murder is, “I’m doing something I know is likely to result in someone’s death and I don’t care.” It’s not so much wanting to kill someone but not caring who, as it is wanting to do something inherently deadly and not caring if anyone dies. The classic example is firing a gun aimed just over the heads of a crowd of people and spraying a bunch of bullets over them. You don’t specifically want to kill anyone (maybe your actual intent is to scare them) but you have to know that’s likely to kill someone, and you do it anyway.

Usually, it’s been applied in situations like that where someone is putting a group of people at risk rather than a specific person, but the law doesn’t require that. Derek Chauvin was charged with depraved heart murder in the killing of George Floyd, in addition to being charged with 1st degree murder. He was convicted of first degree, but the defense had made a motion to dismiss the depraved heart charge because, they argued, he wasn’t doing something that put a group of people in danger, instead just Floyd. The court did not buy that argument and allowed that charge to stand.


I guarantee you that the killer’s lawyer will be using the BS Twinkie defense we saw rolled out here in an earlier topic, that he was trained as a killing machine and therefore not responsible for his actions.


What separates Murder 2 from Manslaughter is a determination of whether the action was something inherently deadly or just deadly if done improperly or to excess. Usually Man 1 is when you are assaulting someone and they die in the process. The intent wasn’t to kill, but the actions when taken to such a degree were likely to do so.

And that will require a lot more work for prosecutors than they seem to be willing to do here.
Manslaughter is the easier charge to prove and put him away in prison for.

I would suspect Chauvin being a police officer meant they held him to a higher standard of conduct when restraining people as well. As this would be a routine part of his job. But your analogy is spot on when it comes to the method of killing the victim and how it can be perceived.


Exactly. If Jordan was a white woman and Daniel Penny was a Black man, he’d already be sitting in an electric chair. All the hand wringing and pearl clutching that the press is doing over this is really frustrating.


And I would argue that putting someone in a chokehold is inherently deadly. There’s a reason police departments have banned it. It too often resulted in death.


Which would require introduction of expert witnesses to that effect.

My guess is you would have a 50/50 chance of pulling that off with a Manhattan jury depending on how good Neely’s legal representation is.

I get the impression the Man 2 charge is meant to get Neely to plead guilty quickly and avoid a trial.


Do you think the same charges would have been filed had the races of the two men been reversed?


many white people confuse being uncomfortable with being in danger. it’s all over “stand your ground” laws and the murders that have resulted from them. it’s also why so many white people conflate homelessness with crime.

it’s also the reason i think these reporters are so sympathetic.


Nope. You are absolutely correct. They would have gone for Murder 2 and plead down to Man 1 if the killer was represented by a paid attorney.