Oh goody. It’s not like an effective opposition would be useful right now or anything. Keep fighting amongst yourselves, that’ll help.
Now do you people see how destructive Socialism is? It’s so dangerous that it’s even tearing apart Socialists!*
“dyed-in-the-wool, uncompromising socialist”
I wouldn’t class Jeremy Corbyn in those terms. He’s a social democrat more than a socialist. Somewhat to the left of Bernie Sanders, and certainly a long way to the left of the current neoliberal consensus in the West, but he doesn’t believe in things like turning all companies into workers’ collectives. Those are essential features of socialism. It’s only because the consensus is so ludicrously right-wing focused that people can look at Corbyn and say, “How Marxian!” He’s still by far the most progressive leadership figure in Britain in a very, very long time though, probably since Michael Foot was Labour leader in the early-1980’s.
And we might have one if the PLP weren’t engaging in a dick-waving contest with the membership. Fuckers.
It’s so stupid.
I get it, they don’t like Corbyn. I don’t think he’s a terribly effective leader (hard to be really, when none of your colleagues want you there). But how is this better?
Who’s going to ride in on their unicorn and save the day?
I don’t think it will make the slightest difference. I think even the worst Blairite now knows that the important thing to do now is not to get involved in the EU debate. As an old policeman once said to me, if you’re called to a fight the first thing you check is that they aren’t using knives. And if they aren’t, you leave them to get on with it until they’ve had enough, and then you disperse them.
In this case, however, I say that if the Conservatives want to use knives, let them.
The last time the Labour Party split was the arrival of the SDP->SDLP (Pre-Blair Light), and look how well that turned out for them.I suspect that this time things may go the other way and we’ll end up with a Podemos-alike, and a Labour Party in Parliament that will have nobody to get the votes out at the next election. In Asterix chez les Brétons, a well known French textbook on the subject of the British, after Abraracourcix loses his temper with the men who carry him on a shield, they comment “Il a tort de mécontenter la base et de se priver de son soutien.” I think a lot of entitled Blairite MPs are going to find this out, when all their constituency parties have evaporated again like they did after Iraq, but this time have joined something else.
I agree. His policies are socialdemocratic ones, but the party changed - see Blair’s New Labour. The German political landscape had a similar development. Die Linke (The Left) has a similar platform like the 90s socialdemocratic SPD before Schröder used Blair as blueprint for his Agenda 2010.
Fuck knows. i think there’s part of them that’s scared that if there is a snap election, Labour might be able to win with a three-legged dog, and they’d rather one of their Lo-Cal Thatcherite brigade was in the driving seat instead of who Labour members actually want, because fuck those people. If the Lib Dems had any sense, They’d try and provide a credible leftish alternative*, but that would involve ousting Jesus-freak Farron MP for the Land of Rich Tories’ Holiday Homes.
*obviously, thanks to Clegg et al they’re fucked till at least 2025, but it’d be nice to see them at least put a fucking game face on.
I think Johnson will waltz to a massive victory in October. Fuck knows who they are, but 52% of people supported him, and an utterly dysfunctional Labour Party isn’t going to win anything. The LDs are a silly irrelevance for a generation.
Depressing, isn’t it?
I support Jeremy, but you should be aware that he is at heart a Brexiter in the same vein as Tony Benn. The left-wing argument is about the EU being an undemocratic neoliberal corporate enterprise etc.
To put it mildly.
First off, I cannot stomach the idea of wanting Theresa May to become PM.
I will be grimly amused to see how Johnson walks the tightrope of pretending there won’t be any impact and we’ll negotiate back to where we are now but with less influence, and keeping Farage and his merry band of morons in line when they want to build a wall and won’t be happy unless all the filty foreigners are thrown out over it.
The funny bit will be the Conservatives passing a vote of no confidence in themselves to force the election.
Right now I’m feeling a lot like this person. Different country, mind.
Of course, for Brexit, read Trump. But surely not…
(almost nobody I know supports Trump, but then again almost nobody I know supported Brexit…)
Corbyn loses no confidence motion by 172 votes to 40
Corbyn seems like a standup guy, but he has no infrastructure… the Blairite wing has seen to that. Even if he wins again, he’s going to basically have to build the party up from scratch while turfing out the folks who’ve voted to depose him in massive numbers. That’s going to take a while and he doesn’t have that kind of time. Imagine if Corbyn won again and there was a snap election called. Talk about getting caught with your pants around your ankles.
I don’t see a clear way for this to work out well… Britain’s just fucked.
The last time this happened, with the formation of the SDP, it led to the Tories massive win in 1983 (which, perversely, led to Labour’s massive win in 1997 and the reason we’re in today’s mess, but that’s another story…)
I read an interesting observation somewhere that the split in England is now clearly between social conservatives and metropolitan progressives (rather than rich/poor or workers/employers.) Both of our main parties are essentially coalitions between these two wings; UKIP has effectively managed to start to steal the social conservatives from both sides (by not really having an actual platform but by being all things to all people - save the NHS but do so by selling it off etc.)
No, 52% of people supported a leader who would resolvedly curb immigration (and then pour money into the NHS). He’s already said he won’t do that. His face and discourses right after the vote showed him for not-really-a-brexiter, he’s been found out. I predict he won’t even be able to get himself nominated as leader - after these shambles, his credibility is very low all around.
Farage might waltz to a massive victory; or Gove, if he ends up being leader. Anyone softer than them will not be able to claim that 52% (assuming that still exists by the time the next GE comes around, which is not a given - “bremorse” is a thing).
I’m really sick of this “position”, which has been utterly false since 2009. Benn’s tirades were from the '70s and the '80s, when the European Parliament was little more than decorative; but the EP now has veto power on all directives, which it does not propose but still shapes or blocks through committees. The EP is elected with one of the most democratic voting laws in the world. The Commission is still slightly opaque, but it is nominated by elected governments, not by bankers or civil servants; Commissioners answer to the Commission President, who in turns answers directly to Parliament. It’s not a coincidence that the stream of screwed-up lobby-friendly directives reduced dramatically post-2009. People like to talk a lot about the TTIP – well, as it stands, the TTIP “as leaked” simply does not have enough votes to make it through Parliament, and you can bet your house that MEPs will not let it be applied without a parliamentary vote; they love to lock horns with the Commission on constitutional grounds, because they almost invariably win them by having a direct electoral mandate that is much stronger than the Commission’s.
The European Central Bank does need fixing at some levels, but 1) it doesn’t matter a jolt for UK citizens, since they are not in the Eurozone, and 2) an independent central bank is widely considered superior as an instrument of monetary policy than alternatives used in the past which often resulted in massive inflation.
People still harping about Benn’s discourses from 30 or 40 years ago, including Corbyn, should wake up and just engage with their own MEPs.
EDIT: Because I personally love Benn and cherish his legacy more than most, I dug out his famous “Essential Questions”, answering them as the post-2009 Commission President to the best of my abilities.
“What power have you got?” - setting policy agenda, which results in proposals for laws/directives; dismissing Commissioners; representing the EU abroad (in concert with other figures). I technically appoint Commissioners, although in practice they are nominated by Council members.
“Where did you get it from?” - nominated by European Council, approved or rejected by European Parliament
“In whose interests do you use it?” - arguably in the interests of both European governments (the Council) and their citizens (Parliament)
“To whom are you accountable?” - the European Parliament (although losing significant support in the Council might reduce effectiveness).
“How do we get rid of you?” - a simple majority vote in European Parliament.
You can repeat this exercise with, say, the Council President, who is an even weaker figure. And if you complain about proceedings in the Council, you really have to take it up with your own national governments, since it’s their direct emanation.
Great, so when Gary Johnson dark-horses our election in November, we’ll end up with an international Johnson&Johnson front. Except this one does make babies cry…
You’ll have to forgive my lack of faith that the British electorate wouldn’t do something colossally stupid right now.