Larry Harvey on Burning Man's diversity gap: 'Black folks don't like to camp as much as white folks'

[anon61221983]

Aaaannnnd, scene.

[jsroberts]

It isn’t that there’s necessarily anything wrong with having a group largely made up of white men, but it seems a little odd when diversity is such a major topic on BB. If anything, I think the relative lack of diversity is a bigger issue here than in Burning Man, since the barriers such as holiday time and disposable income are less significant and other possible explanations (black people and women aren’t that interested in talking about diversity) are much less valid.

[anon67050589]

@funruly

I expect most folks of working-class roots and modest means to be investing their leisure dollars much closer to home. Like, on upgrading their home so they can have better family get-togethers with a remodeled kitchen or living room.

And don’t forget having an RV so that family vacations can be done relatively cheaply. (Can you tell I spend a lot of time in Indiana?)

[anon67050589]

@joeair61

if suburban whites wished to go into an traditionally AA community, and watch the fights, they were welcome.

But the reverse is not equally true. White people can go a lot of places where they aren’t normally seen, and while people might look at them quizzically they won’t be prohibited from doing it, but black people face a much higher chance that, having spent the time and money to get to a conventionally-white venue, they WILL feel unwelcome and possibly unsafe.

[anon47741163]

This wasn’t on the playa, there were only so many places where one could put these things. But it’s OK now, I go to toorcamp instead for my EL wire fix.

[anon67050589]

How do they account for unknowns, since most people don’t put all that info in their online profile?

[anon61221983]

That being said, I think there is inherent value in having these conversations within communities that tend to be whiter in make up… Making that issue part of our thinking about community and how structure them will help us to think more inclusively, I think.

[dobby]

@anon67050589

But the reverse is not equally true. White people can go a lot of places where they aren’t normally seen, and while people might look at them quizzically they won’t be prohibited from doing it, but black people face a much higher chance that, having spent the time and money to get to a conventionally-white venue, they WILL feel unwelcome and possibly unsafe.

This is so very true for minorities, one of the greatest of the white privileges is the ability to let your freak flag fly freely.
In situations where arbitrary judgement comes into play guess who gets judged first. The chances of a lynch are mostly low, but the chances of a ruined night and wasted money can be unfortunate.
More problematic in the absence of violence is when a white guy is an asshole he is just an asshole to everyone, when a minority does it people look at the disgusting $racial/ethnic label. It gets exhausting to be seen as a roving ambassador 24/7.

[dobby]

@Israel_B

Jews no longer count as a separate race.

I always feel like this is one of those racism is over now that we have a black president things. Yes there are some academics who make a name saying something against the grain, and yes there has been 100-150 years of whagt amounts to organized whitening programs in the US, some quite successful though most participants stop acting Jewish 2-3 generations into into the process. See Abraham Geiger who favoured this approach which lead to reform Judaism.

[jsroberts]

There’s some information here; it seems to be extrapolation from browsing habits based on cookies that BoingBoing and other sites allow. It’s not going to be perfectly accurate, but it may give a general picture of the demographics and will be more accurate and detailed here than on other sites that don’t use those cookies.

@anon61221983

That being said, I think there is inherent value in having these conversations within communities that tend to be whiter in make up.

I agree, but I still think it’s interesting that there seem to be relatively few black voices. Women and LGBT people do seem to be a lot more vocal here, which is good - allies are important, but there’s a greater risk of misrepresenting people if they’re almost all you hear. It also comes back to the same issue as with Burning Man: how inclusive can a group be if it is not particularly diverse? Is this actually a problem when people are free to join both groups?

[Mausium]

@zikzak

But Burning Man makes a ton of noise about being “radically inclusive”, touting a vast diversity of ideas

Hey there, there’s not a lot of appeals to the top 1% when it comes to mainstream media and performance!

Billionaire techbros are a poor misunderstood minority.

[pixleshifter]

@jsroberts

it seems to be extrapolation from browsing habits based on cookies that BoingBoing and other sites allow

NoScript, Ghostery and Privacy Badger take care of that quite nicely.

[shaddack]

@OtherMichael

Not claiming to have the goal of “radicial inclusion” (and falling short) for a start.

Do they include enough radicals…?

[PhasmaFelis]

@anon47741163

When 65,000 people congragate in the desert, it is no longer empty.

I’m not sure you know what noise pollution is. It’s not “I went to a party and the stereo was too loud.”

[OtherMichael]

Are you going to proffer an alternative?

[pixleshifter]

Donald Trump?

[AnonyMouse]

More of a hut thing, usually. And it’s OK for it to go up on the balcony.
(I live in the UK’s main Hasidic quarter - I don’t know how seriously the non-ultra-orthodox take this practice)

[PhasmaFelis]

@OtherMichael

Are you going to proffer an alternative?

“Noise pollution” implies that they’re disturbing the surrounding community. I think what you actually mean is “it’s too loud and I don’t enjoy it,” which is perfectly valid, but it sounded like you were accusing them of being bad neighbors, which doesn’t seem fair. They deliberately hold the event in the most uninhabited place possible, and they’re religious about cleaning up afterwards.

[EylerWerve]

@sohowaboutthis

Larry Harvey was mansplaining, except that instead of being condescending to women

The term “privileged explaining” neatly captures the various varieties of people who have gone great periods of time without anyone suggesting they should listen more than they speak. Meanwhile outgroups of all sorts get bumped back for this just by joining the conversation at all.

[anon15383236]

I think you describe the general phenomenon well, but I usually find that lumping them together like that waters down the utility of pointing out specific types.