All of the arguments against gay marriage stem from either 1.) feeling icky about gay people doing teh buttseks (or rather doing sex wrong in their opinion), or 2.) a sloppily edited compilation of stories and sayings written mostly during the bronze age says it’s not a cool thing. Also that if you wear cotton poly blends, we should bury you to your neck and throw rocks at your head till you’re dead.
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I think you miss a major motivation of the 20th century: a way to smear people (mostly men) you don’t like or threaten smears on people to keep family and friends in line politically. Don’t show empathy, learn to express love for the dominant form of sport-the-ball, procreate, don’t show depression or other extreme unhappiness… otherwise, what are you? Some kind of homo?
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Is that an argument against gay marriage? That people who get gay married are called homos, and smeared in the public image? Because I’d expect that the act of getting married is entirely about making the relationship publicly known.
The smear, I think, is the effect, and the cause is homophobia of some kind. Being anti gay marriage is part of the whole smear effect, rather than the smear being an argument against gay marriage.
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“Family Equality Council” Wow. A group in America with “Family” in its name that’s not a hate group.
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Definitions of “argument” get slippery when none of the arguments put forward are credible or creditable. So underlying motivations and “what the arguer has to lose” gets pulled into the discussion as being much more important.
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They have none, so that’s why they bring in the Bible and God and this and that. Trying to appeal to the feels rather than the logic.
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It seems like most conservatives are already brain dead so what would throwing rocks at them do?
And just think, he was blocked from his first judicial appointment for being too conservative.
But weren’t you just making some kind of point about not reducing political parties into one-dimensional stereotypes?
Really? I’ve never heard this. Got a cite?
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There was one point at a party that an elderly neighbour of mine started railing against gay marriage (I think it may have been when DOMA or Prop 8 were in the news). He gushed about his many children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, how wonderful they were, and what pillars of the community they were, and then said, “and of course none of this could have happened with gay marriage!”
I replied, “I’m sorry that your children and grandchildren would have been unable to resist the temptation of entering into gay marriages.”
He grew irate: “How dare you say such a thing? Nobody in my family would ever do a thing like that!”
“Then how would allowing gay marriage deprive you or the community of your wonderful family?”
“That’s not the point!”
“Then what is?”
“Well, there are married gay people out there, and they aren’t going to have children!”
“You think that they would have children if marriage were forbidden to them?”
“That’s not the point!”
“Then could you explain it?”
“If gay marriage were allowed, there wouldn’t be families like mine!”
Just about as coherent as this case. And this guy is - to individuals - kind, generous, and caring. He’d surely not ask your sexual preference before giving you the shirt off his back. But as soon as the questional is institutional, he goes blind. I just don’t know how to address that sort of argument.
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Oh, I think you do. 
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Dunno. I listened to Posner and I think he destroyed the arguments pretty thoroughly. Posner is really skilled at applying just enough to slam the arguments down without being obvious that he’s using the socratic method.
Samuelson’s arguments are destroyed brutally. Ruling on headline: justifiable use of the term “brutally destroyed.”
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Yes they are.
Oh! I think I know this one! Is the answer something along the lines of a “friendly” hug that lingers just a little too long? Or the accidental touch of hands when both reaching for the same thing, followed by a quick glance into each others eyes, then a shy looking away?
It’s cathartic?
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In all honesty, I feel a bit sorry for the lawyers. Now, perhaps they’re raging homophobes and ideologues, in which case, no sympathy whatsoever. What seems more likely is that they’re career lawyers, who drew the short straw of having to defend the indefensible. And in our system of justice, that’s an important role, like, being the defense lawyer of a murderer who’s guilty as hell, at a minimum to keep the other side honest.
After all, their job isn’t to personally believe it, (and frankly it didn’t really sound like their hearts were in it) just to put forward the best arguments they can for it.
I’m glad they and their arguments got a pretty thorough beat-down, but, at the same time, I’m sure if I were them, I’d just be cursing from the day of the assignment to the day of the hearing that I had to somehow come up with arguments to support this braindead policy, and would have gone full fetal/turtle mode far earlier than these guys did. After all, their job isn’t to personally believe it, (and frankly it didn’t really sound like their hearts were in it) just to put forward the best arguments they can for it.
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As a soshulist-pinko Usian Green, I take offence to the notion that the Democrats are ‘liberal’.
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Works for me
Here’s one aspect of your neighbor’s argument you can address: married gay people do have children. Not all married gay people have children, but then not all married heterosexuals have children. Children aren’t a requirement of marriage, and vice versa. And I’m surprised how many opponents of same-sex marriage get uncomfortable when I ask them if they think gay people should be prevented from adopting. Many concede that same-sex couples can, and do, make fine parents. When I point out that allowing those couples to marry would give their children much-needed legal stability they sputter.
One other thing: if his family is that large it’s incredibly likely there is at least one LGBT person in his family, either one of his children or his grandchildren. If they come out to him that will be a real test of how kind, generous, and caring he is.
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