Magic-mushroom drug lifts depression in first human trial


#1

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#2

Interesting. My one problem with directly using herbs or mushrooms or whatever is, and this is a layperson talking here, how do I know the potency of one is going to be similar enough to the potency of another so that I’d know general ‘do not take more than’ isn’t going to be +/- so much that I could accidentilly either do nothing or end up on the floor twitching and screaming?

Edit: Reading… oooh derp. They gave just the active component. OOOkay that’s good, distill out the bit that actually does the thing to make it predictable-ish. Sweet.


#3

For a person buying raw plant matter from a regular seller, you’re right that the strength will be somewhat unpredictable.

How big of a deal that is depends very much on the drug’s overdose potential - taking morphine in the form of opium straight from poppies, for example, seems much riskier than taking psilocybin in the form of raw mushrooms.

If I were worried about unpredictable strength, I’d likely take the approach of grinding and mixing the plant matter up so a single dose is a fairly even cross-section of all the specimens obtained, starting with small doses that would be reasonable if the plant matter were of the highest strength available, and then working up to a desired strength of effect.


#4

Let’s see…

Psilocybin is a naturally occurring compound, so there is no value to be gained by Novatis, Pfizer, Roche (et. al.) in patenting it.

I predict that psilocybin therapy will be killed in regulatus utero by the above named companies who would force depressed people to pay more for less effective (yet patentable) medications, rather than permitting a more effective therapy (that they can’t profit from) come to market.


#5

going a step further… perhaps there will even be some sort of “war on drugs” to set the public’s mind against such things, which will include laws to discourage further research.
ha! as if such a thing could ever happen… :cry:


#6

First official trial since the drug war banned them. Human trials have been going on for decades in the West, some of it organized research (like Leary and friends at Harvard), much of it informal self-experimentation. (And of course, the traditional healers we got the stuff from have been using it for much longer, though most of it was probably for the psychedelic effects.)

The traditional way to titrate dosages for marijuana (eat 1/4 of the cookie, wait an hour, have more if you want it) don’t really apply for psilocybin and LSD - taking a dose seems to block much of the effect of later doses - but people have also been doing a lot of recent experiment with “microdoses”, 1/10 - 1/4 of what it takes to get perceptual effects. With mushrooms, that’s pretty easy, since the typical doses are a few grams. So try it, and if you had a solid trip, wait a week, and if not, at least wait a few days.

I don’t know how you’d microdose with typical blotter LSD unless you’ve got a reliable long-term source; you’re buying a square of paper from some dude in the park that might have nothing in it, might have a lot, probably has it evenly distributed across the paper but maybe not – that’s something that actual medical researchers can do a lot better.


#7

Magic-mushroom drug lifts depression in first human trial

I knew it, I just knew this would come out one day.


#8

Ok, then.

So, at what point exactly could you start suing the people who have been making this illegal? There is a case to be made for actual harm being done to peole this has been withheld from and illegal enrichment by those pushing inferior products.

Just like smoking (‘it’s not addictive and poses no health threat!’) and fossil fuel use (‘it does no damage to the ecosystem!’) … is there any way we can make these fuckers pay for the damage they have done and the good they have prevented being done, KNOWINGLY?


#9

I love the results of this trial, but I hate the fact that it was reported in this way.
Please take a refresher course in understanding scientific study results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw
Given that the entire study involved 12 people, the results are statistically meaningless. They are important to those scientists who want to continue to build on them, but at this point, they mean buck-all to the public at large.


#10

This seems to be a common misconception. You can’t patent a compound. They patent the manufacturing process for creating/purifying/etc the compound in a particular form (pill/liquid/stabilize/whatever) as well as the use of the compound in a particular form to treat a disease that they themselves have done the clinical trials in (guaranteeing that their form of the drug is the only one that has FDA approval)

They can do that with a natural compound as easily as with one they created in a lab.

This is why they can charge $1 for a pill of propecia even though the active chemical finesteride has been out of patent protection for ages.


#11

Also depression trials have a truly astounding placebo effect. By some estimates, over 80% of the response to antidepressants was accounted for by placebos.

In some ways, this makes a lot of sense for psychiatric illnesses, but it means that one has to do big trials to account for it.


#12

I think that’s great. But I got a thing…
It always seemed to me like good LSD and mushrooms, pretty much the same.
In my experience, feeling down or tense is not ameliorated, but enhanced by LSD.
Maybe that’s just me.


#13

that’s true, but from my understanding about these studies, at least the ones that have been done in terminal patients, they get months of preparation therapy beforehand and are monitored and assured by doctors the whole time. taking the whole set and setting thing very seriously. and i’m sure a shrink wouldn’t have a hard time procuring an injectable and fast acting form of some benzo.


#14

In fairness, I never had a bad time on mushrooms. Not very bad anyhow.
But I’m pretty sure I could.


#15

True. But both substances can help to see the reasons why you’re feeling down or tense in the first place. That’s not a nice experience but it helped me enormously to make some necessary changes.

I’m not surprised by the results of this study and hope that further, more extensive research is conducted. Psilocybin and LSD – given in the right setting – may be the best remedy for depression we have.


#16

What about if you know already? Plus, you’re essentially helpless for 8-12 hrs or so.

I’m with you on the more study though. Hallucinogens are an under-implemented and valuable resource.


#17

Wait, is that placebo effect, or evidence that participating in anti-depressant drug trials is a highly effective depression treatment option…


#18

Is there actually a mechanism that lets drug companies stop others from bringing a drug to market? (Beyond, as @gatto noted, lobbying corrupt politicians to legislate against the substance in question.) It wouldn’t surprise me, just… man. The way the healthcare system works in the States is fucked in so many ways.


#19

This sounds like a really smart approach. After weighing out doses it could even go into glycerine capsules.


#20

Not true.

One of the most difficult courses I took in college was Stats for Psych. I took with a professor who worked with other professors to design their studies, so he was a very good source for what could be considered significant. He specifically talked about this issue of small trial sizes and explained that a trial on as few as 6 subjects could produce significant results.

I really loved the course and how it helped me to understand the results of studies much better.