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recipient of a double-first class degree in Art History from Cambridge University
As a recipient of a first class maths degree from Cambridge I would not expect to be placed on the board of a Mathematics Society based merely upon this. In fact, I think being an actor might be more significant here.
rants
I must admit the criticism in the blog post at times constitutes a personal attack. Speckling one’s arguments with ad hominems seems to be acceptable amongst many journalists and critics: one imagines in part because it produces something enjoyable to read. It can, however, leave one open to attack from those that disagree with you, and perhaps summon criticism.
I think the use of scare quotes around “‘a model and social entrepreneur’” are an unnecessary ad hominem that should be kept out of criticism of this sort. As should the criticism of her performance in a play, the generalisation of this to bad acting, and information about the roles Cole has performed in.
However, I feel that you misrepresent Holland somewhat in not including the crux of his argument: that the creative partner of the Brontë Parsonage Museum had employed Cole as an actor and that this might have influenced her selection when there might have been others with more relevant experience.
> This was, quite simply, the worst play I have ever seen, and the writer of it? Simon Armitage, the incumbent creative partner at the Brontë Parsonage Museum. So here we see one of the many problems with Lily’s appointment – nepotism
> I have nothing against Lily herself, other than her terrible acting, but against the people who selected her.
Men like Holland are why women like the Brontës used pseudonyms.
Are you sure you mean this? I suspect you unnecessarily introducing gender politics into a discussion that seems far more about a dislike of the new and the popular as seems made clear in the rant you cite: A good six paragraphs of the piece are on this topic.
I feel this criticism is unfair. Someone gets upset by how their club is changing and goes off in a huff and it seems very much like you are suggesting that they are in some way repressing women.
enthusiatic mediocrities
That’s a rather unfortunate ad hominem. Where do you have evidencefor his mediocrity? I feel that a long term member of a society does have a right to express their views on such things, though it might have been better if they have done this in a more precise manner.
In summary, I feel you are: partaking in a public lynching shaming; risk misrepresenting Holland; are unfairly attacking Holland; and bringing issues of gender into an issue that does not require one. Shame.
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Umm… so if you read the paragraph below you’ll find he states he is annoyed because she appeared in a play directed by the creative party of the museum and feels that this together with her notoriety was the reason for her selection when there might be many others who would be more suitable.
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Well, I was going to start off by admitting that I also don’t know anything about Lily Cole, but apparently I do:
I saw that ep; it was a good one.
As for the dude who’s complaining, I genuinely never had heard of him before now; so the irony of his comment is real.
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Of course, the title also refers to Cole simply as “famous woman”, instead of - you know - Lily Cole. But then tells you that she is famous, which you would presumably know. She is a modern renaissance woman, and I can’t fathom how this guy doesn’t feel the churl complaining about her appointment.
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I am of course using it metaphorical. Is metaphor allowed?
The element of hyperbole is noted.
Public shaming is a better word.
The book “So you’ve been publicly shamed” gives quite a good summary of the effects that this sort of stuff can have on people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dTdx4g8Kc
There was a particularly nasty story of a young women who posted a picture on facebook: this was taken out of context and then repeatedly shared. She proceeded to lose her job and then spend the next year inside her parent’s house.
This doesn’t seem too dissimilar: some guy writes grumpy letter to a society he is a member of, it gets shared on the guardian perhaps out of context (I haven’t read the article in detail to to know) and then spread inaccurately over social media.
The fact that this person might be used to the public eye and saying contentious things may reduce this effect somewhat. And public criticism is sometimes necessary but it should be vaguely accurate!
P.S If you can offer a suitable alternative idea for the metaphor of “oh this person is on the ground, he must have done something wrong, let’s kick him” I would be happy to use it in future. One doesn’t come to mind at the moment.
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Well, I would have offered Merle Oberon as an example instead – her Cathy was unsurpassed – but she’s no longer with us. Binoche is the best Cathy still living, and a powerful, accomplished, and well-known actress even at 53.
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but I don’t have a subscription.
There are some blurry photos.
I think he also wrote some stuff on his blog, but I can’t find it now.
He wanted the society to choose a (female) writer as its creative partner. From what I’ve seen from another “Withering slights” * article, published some years ago in the Daily Mail (not linked,as a courtesy), there has been quite a bit of feuding between those who are primarily interested in the parsonage, and those who are primarily interested in the Brontë’s literary works. Some might take this as a sign that the parsonage faction has won out.
*no, it’s not original.
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She’s exceedingly bright, and has been working for good causes for a long damn time.
She’s a great person. By coincidence she’s very good friends with someone I admire, and who would not be friends without good reason.
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Not really shame.
This twerp seems to have come from a fuzzy little hidey-hole and launched his grievance out to the world, without any sense of cultural context, lacking the diplomatic and public oratory skills to manage his message well, and abysmally failed to persuade his audience - perhaps unchosen, but there we go, modern context - of his righteous views.
Or, he’s a character along these lines: a self-preening twit, ignorant, suggestively gender-biased, incapable of objective evaluation, and desirous of a public to hear him moan.
The fact that he’s a long-standing member is irrelevant. That simply reinforces the fallacy that tenure and/or long-standing encapsulated cultural norms may outweigh common sense, decency, and respect for others.
In simple terms, his statements, his rhetoric, his attitude, his stance - these are not ok. He needs to apologise.
In frank terms, I am bringing two exceedingly bright young women up in this world. Any fuck-witted suggestion of misogyny or glass ceilings or old-boys’ clubbishness or repression of female progress will receive short and shit-coated shrift from me.
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This twerp seems to have come from a fuzzy little hidey-hole
Name calling. But maybe your anger is justified.
launched his grievance out to the world
Accurate. Although, one imagines his intended readers might have been the 14 people who commented positively on his blog rather than the whole world…
diplomatic and public oratory skills to manage his message well
I’m not so sure about this. I think the effect is the one he intended and his errors are due to his morals and restraints rather than any lack of skill. I can understand his desire to “speak his truth” but he may have ignored the truth in speaking his truth.
desirous of a public to hear him moan
Well that is the point of moaning. I’m not sure the extend to which his intended audience was just the members of his society. It’s complicated. I mean… I’m not sure he had much readership until someone picked it up and turned it into an issue. His blog post comes from 3 weeks ago.
Any fuck-witted suggestion of misogyny or glass ceilings or old-boys’ clubbishness or repression of female progress will receive short and shit-coated shrift from me.
Enabling women in all ways is clearly a noble cause and societally valuable. And yet… perhaps too hair-trigger an approach risks generating victims, enemies and false martyrs.
I see your point about the symbolism of the thing: “patriarchy moans about young clever women” but to how many situations can this be applied and to what extent can we ask people to avoid symbolism in all they do. He could certainly have included “anti-sexist” credentials into his piece and phrased his piece to avoid any such implication, and it is perhaps valid to ask him to clarify his position on this matter.
I guess I just feel that villains deserve fair-hearing precisely because they are villains and the world has created a massively powerful machine with which to condemn individuals in the form of social media and this should condemn individuals when they are guilty. Cases like this always come to mind when this happens: Woman Fired After Tweet on AIDS in Africa Sparks Internet Outrage - ABC News
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After reading what jerwin brought to our attention I’m no longer sure his argument is wrong. His tone is inappropriate though …
Let’s not forget he is a long time member of a society researching and trying to raise awareness for a group of influential women and he wrote (several?) books about one of them. Not exactly a textbook misogynist.
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You have to ask that question? Also, James Tiptree Jr and (women using initials) JK Rowling, among others.
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The more I hear about this guy, the more he sounds petty and pretentious.
The needlessly snide tone he chooses to use in his criticism undermines any valid point he may have, and instead makes it seem like he has issues with Cole personally.
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Be brief and succinct.
e.g.
“Emily Bronte is known for her novels and her poetry. To celebrate her legacy, it would be most appropriate to choose a creative partner who is also known for her published writings. Cole is not that person.
Over the past few years the Bronte society, has for its own misguided reasons, downplayed the literary aspects of the Bronte sisters.”
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It isn’t Cole’s fault she was appointed to the position, and derogating her to make this point is completely unfair, though the rhetorical style is not uncommon in the UK. His main point seems not without merit.
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Forgot something…
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TBH, that’s not really an argument against him. Or his point, if there is any. For the record, while I scrolled quite incredulously through his rant - and the guardian piece, too - olvbne word stuck.
Nepotism.
And I though: well, isn’t that the point of British literary societies?
I was quite excited when this film came out, because, well, Gilliam. Worst best director (best worst? Dunno.) I know, and I have the tendency to love his films. But I can’t even remember there was an actress in this film. Only a dead actor, not that it mattered.
Oh come on. You only have read Vogon poetry if you did so in the German original.
Denn sonst werd ich dich rändern in deine Gobberwarzen
Mit meinem Börgelkranze, wart’s nur ab!
You might be right.
I suggest inviting Thursday Next to chair the meetings. That would probably at least shake things up a bit.
On a more serious note, does anyone know if the Brontë society thingy is actually as elitist as I presume? Because, well, we’re talking about a country here which is quite… Erm. Let me just say my per perception is that the G-gaps (as in Gentry, Gender, Generations…) are a bit more pronounced in British society than in countries which had at least a short flirt with the bourgeois revolutions of the 19th century.
Oh, well, granted, some things have changed in the British Empire …erm… English fiefdom… oh, good riddance, that island’s society.
Women can now publish under their own name. Yay. I mean, some. Sometimes. And even be successful.
Btw, after all my banter, seriously, @anon61221983, JK Rowling used her initials because of that bullshot? Didn’t know know that.
Oh, well, lackofsurprise.gif
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